Appleseed shoot gear

[AJ Dual]

I'm attending an Appleseed shoot this July here in Wisconsin, and am looking at the "what to bring" .pdf and am looking for some advice on a few items. After being mostly an Internet chairborne ranger who's only managed mostly a little trap shooting and some indoor pistol shooting the past four years, I'm looking to re-focus on gearing up for range time in general. I've been doing tons of Googling and searching other forums, but I still can't make up my mind, and am left wondering if there's other options out there.

With me as the sole income and my brood of two sets of twins four and under, I'm also looking to do things inexpensively. Just ammo and range time and events like the upcoming Appleseed are stretching it a bit as-is.

Here's what I need, and the ideas I'm looking at.

Shooting mat: Surplus GI, DIY carpet remnant, purpose made.
Shooting Jacket vs. elbow pads.
Shooting sling for my AR for sitting and standing offhand fire.
Eye protection that has Rx inserts.
Electronic amplified muffs so I can hear range commands.

Shooting mat: A lot of the recomendations seem to be to just go with a carpet remnant. I've also seen the USGI Vietnam-era paratrooper case/mat which looks halfway decent at only $20 a few place. Others say to just use a camping/yoga mat. Then there's the dedicated products going all the way up into the hundreds.

I'm thinking it's mainly USGI/vs. carpet right now. Maybe with some home-made improvments to the carpet remnant like getting the edges serged, and adding some straps. Perhaps Scotchguarding the hell out of it or figuring out a DIY way to waterproof it on the backside, such as getting a tarp sewed onto it.

Shooting Jacket vs. elbow pads:

The cheap option is going to be just elbow pads, Hard or soft? (I'm guessing soft, to absorb wiggle and my pulse better)

The best affordable option I've seen for a shooting jacket is the Creedmoor basic here: http://www.creedmoorsports.com/store/product.php?productid=16135&cat=249&page=1 Does that basic $75 model provide enough stiffness, retention and resistance to be worthwhile? Or should I just wait until I can afford one of the $350+ highpower jackets with all the stiffeners and stick with the elbow pads?

The $75 Creedmoor jacket is do-able, the $350 is obviously not. From my reading, the USMC surplus and other thin cloth shooting jackets are just a way to position a little pading where you'd want it, and aren't worth it, and it's just better to go with pads. A jacket's only worth it if it provides support and resistance for stable sight picture. True?

Sling for my AR.

Right now I've got a single-point sling to hang my Colt 16" AR from my torso so I can "drop it" to get my hands free for SHTF/Looting/HD type use. The only other sling for my AR was the original basic webbing with two metal adjusters. What's a good basic sling for highpower and the AQT Appleseed shoot? I can just put the original $4 sling on there again, but something better would be nice. OTOH, I think I have much less than $50 to spend on this right now. Anyone know of a source for the synthetic M1907 clones or the best price on them? Is Turner it?

http://www.turnersling.com/miva/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=TS&Product_Code=NMSRAWS&Category_Code=NSRS


Eye wear:

Right now I'm looking at the ESS goggles with the wire-rim Rx inserts, because they seem to allow for a wider FOV, and go higher to the eyebrow for allowing sight picture through the lens easier.
http://www.uscav.com/Productinfo.aspx?productID=16821&TabID=1&CatID=51 + http://www.esseyepro.com/ICE---Profile-Rx-Lens-Inserts_63_detail.html If someone knows of ballistic eyewear with Rx inserts that can be had for under $120 or so (not counting lenses) I'd love to hear it.

Ears:

I was thinking of going with Peltor Tac6's I can find them as low as $55 then supplementing with earplugs. Am I better off with neckband or headband style?  Also, the NRR is only 19dB, I wish it was 24dB but I don't know of anyone making slim protectors that don't interfere with a rifle stock that get that high. The Tac7's are not too much at $130 or so, but they look bulky. Does anyone know of a similar product to the S7 that has a higher NRR, but isn't over $100?

[AmbulanceDriver]

AJ, I'm a big fan of the KISS principle.   :)  I'll give you my opinion, and as an RWVA Instructor, lemme tell ya, the software is a lot more important than the hardware.  That being said......

Shooting mat.  I like the carpet remnant with a tarp under it.  Pretty basic, very inexpensive.  I've seen everything from that to the $200 custom shooting mat.  Didn't really notice that the custom shooting mat improved the shooter's score...

Shooting jacket vs. Elbow pads.  Again, I've seen the gamut.  I'm personally fond of the USGI shooting jacket, it does the job.  We're not talking sub-MOA, 1000 yard shooting here.  4 MOA is the standard we teach to. Pads your elbows, takes the bite out of the loop sling on your bicep.  Reduces slippage of the stock on your shoulder.  Can be had for ~$65 online depending on where you find it.

Sling.  Again, big fan of the USGI woven cotton loop sling, AKA the M1 Garand Sling.  It's the easiest thing to teach shooters on, and a very effective tool.

Can't really speak to the prescription insert shooting glasses, as fortunately I don't wear glasses.

Hearing protection, again, I use a pair of Wolf Ears that I bought about 10 years ago and they work great.  Others will likely have better recommendations for you.

[myrockfight]

I have not been to an Appleseed, but not too long ago I had my first experience with a High-Power Shooting Jacket that I borrowed.

I don't know if Creedmoor's are as stiff as the higher end jacket's, but I would plan on getting more than a few days practice on the range if you haven't used them before you go to Appleseed with one. It is a really different shooting experience.  I would also recommend bringing someone along who has used one extensively to show you the ropes.

If you already have experience with them, just disregard everything I said.  

[AJ Dual]

I'm leaning twoards the carpet remnant/tarp as well.  Does anyone have any experience with the $20 paratrooper case/mats? At $20 it seems like it would save me enough time to be worth not messing with the carpet.

At $65 for a USGI shooting jacket, (have a link?) does the extra $10 for the basic Creedmoor jacket make sense? Also, does anyone know what a sling hook is/does? (Goes on your arm somewhere to keep the sling from slipping for offhand positions?) http://www.creedmoorsports.com/store/product.php?productid=16135&cat=249&page=1

I do plan on getting some range time in, seeing as I haven't shot a centerfire rifle in about four years or more with the birth of the twins x2. I'm joining a local range at it's monthly meeting first Monday this May when they take new memberships. I and a friend will be doing some practice with the supplied Appleseed AQT/Fred's rifleman info.

I did some more searching. Found this: http://www.ray-vin.com/tech/websling/webslinghelp.htm  Well Jeez... learn something new every day!  I never understood you detached the rear of that type of sling from the buttstock and put a loop around your bicep like a blood pressure cuff, then it wrapped across the back of the support hand like that.

Looks like Midway has what I'm looking for at $10+ change... http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=174603&t=11082005 After playing with it, I can go to one of the better slings like that Turner AWS someday.

And Ambulance Driver, my rifle is a 16" Colt AR carbine with an A2 fixed carry handle A2 iron sights, and a C-More reflex sight mounted "scout style" over the forearm because of the permanant carry handle.  As you state, you're teaching to 4MOA, so I'm not too worried about my shorter sight radius, do you think I should use the C-More, view the irons through the C-More with it turned off, or just remove it entirely?

My AR currently has a Magpul MOE teloscoping stock, 6 position buffer tube with carbine spring and buffer. I already know I'm reinstalling the original factory A2 buttstock & buffer tube so I can use a sling properly, 

[myrockfight]

At $65 for a USGI shooting jacket, (have a link?) does the extra $10 for the basic Creedmoor jacket make sense? Also, does anyone know what a sling hook is/does? (Goes on your arm somewhere to keep the sling from slipping for offhand positions?) http://www.creedmoorsports.com/store/product.php?productid=16135&cat=249&page=1

I do plan on getting some range time in, seeing as I haven't shot a centerfire rifle in about four years or more with the birth of the twins x2. I'm joining a local range at it's monthly meeting first Monday this May when they take new memberships. I and a friend will be doing some practice with the supplied Appleseed AQT/Fred's rifleman info.

I did some more searching. Found this: http://www.ray-vin.com/tech/websling/webslinghelp.htm  Well Jeez... learn something new every day!  I never understood you detached the rear of that type of sling from the buttstock and put a loop around your bicep like a blood pressure cuff, then it wrapped across the back of the support hand like that.

That is great that you are going to practice. Surely someone at the meeting will shoot/have shot competitively and know how to instruct you on all of your questions. You are a smart guy. I am sure you can figure it out, but it would be nice to have someone looking over you and correcting.

I wish I could give you better direction myself or at least point you to it. But all mine was given to me in person. It was a few months ago and I can't remember it all for the life of me. I haven't been able to go shoot or get into High-Power like I wanted to because of some health issues. I can't wait for this fall! I'll be good and ready then!

[AmbulanceDriver]

AJ, I'm not familiar enough with the C-More to be able to answer your question without asking a couple of my own... :)  Is that a red-dot type sight?  If that is the case, I would strongly recommend using the irons.  Red-dots are great for CQB stuff, but lousy for distance work.  Additionally, some, if not most red dot type sights have a 4+ MOA dot.  so it's kinda hard to get accurate work done if your sights are bigger than your target.  :)

[Ron]

I've switched over to a milsurp cotton sling since I shot an Appleseed. The cotton sling is superior in comfort and grip as compared to my nylon sling IMHO.

If you do not have elbow pads use the blue foam sleeping pad from WalMart, your elbows will thank you. If you have elbow protection the carpet or whatever will be fine. Lay down on a carpet for extended periods putting weight on your bare elbows long enough and it is uncomfortable. If you have protection or padding this will be a non issue.

Have fun!

[AZRedhawk44]

AJ:  I'm also an RWVA instructor... I shoot approximately the same scores on my AQT's whether I'm on bare ground or on a shooter's mat, whether I have my USGI coat or a T-shirt, and whether I have muffs or plugs.

The extra gear just lets me stay comfortable longer while shooting.  Doesn't affect my scores until fatigue or soreness sets in, probably around the 200 round mark or so for a given range session.

Let that be your guide financially.  Just enough, without going overboard.

[AJ Dual]

AJ:  I'm also an RWVA instructor... I shoot approximately the same scores on my AQT's whether I'm on bare ground or on a shooter's mat, whether I have my USGI coat or a T-shirt, and whether I have muffs or plugs.

The extra gear just lets me stay comfortable longer while shooting.  Doesn't affect my scores until fatigue or soreness sets in, probably around the 200 round mark or so for a given range session.

Let that be your guide financially.  Just enough, without going overboard.

That certainly makes a lot of sense. You don't have a shooting jacket, or a mat during the time or situation that you're technically training for.

[CNYCacher]

That certainly makes a lot of sense. You don't have a shooting jacket, or a mat during the time or situation that you're technically training for.

[AJ Dual]

AJ, I'm not familiar enough with the C-More to be able to answer your question without asking a couple of my own... :)  Is that a red-dot type sight?  If that is the case, I would strongly recommend using the irons.  Red-dots are great for CQB stuff, but lousy for distance work.  Additionally, some, if not most red dot type sights have a 4+ MOA dot.  so it's kinda hard to get accurate work done if your sights are bigger than your target.  :)

I'll have to go dig up the original box an documentation for my C-More, but I'm pretty sure it's a 2MOA dot, but I'll take it off anyway. It's just co-witnessed with the sights.  With my fixed A2 carry handle, it's not as if I have the fold-down BUIS like a fancy flat-top AR. so I'm always staring at the front post through the peep at the dot as-is. The C-More instructions are to just adjust it by having your irons zereoed where you want them and then adjust it until the dot is just touching the tip of the front post.

The Russians are re-arming, and China's still on the rise you know...