Author Topic: Backpacks  (Read 6562 times)

makattak

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Backpacks
« on: April 23, 2009, 02:45:34 PM »
Alright, it's time that I upgrade my backpack (and purchase one for my wife).

My current backpack went with me to Philmont 15 years ago and with another scout 15 years previously. As you may guess, many things have deteriorated.

As such, I'm needing a new backpack and I'd like to get one for my wife as well.

Currently I am thinking I would like an internal frame backpack and one I am specifically looking at is a Kelty "Slipperyrock" pack.

For my wife, I'm looking for something smaller (She's 5'3", I think), but still enough to carry a sleeping bag or a tent.

Does anyone have suggestions or advice that I should be considering?
I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

AZRedhawk44

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Re: Backpacks
« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2009, 03:13:01 PM »
Kelty Slipperyrock does not show up on AltaVista search, on Kelty's web site nor on Ebay.

Sure it's made by Kelty?

I have one Kelty pack for my dog, and one extremely light (50 deg. F) sleeping back from Kelty... but I don't trust their gear for any real work back country.

What's your anticipated needs?  How many cubic inches, how much gear of what type, how many days, etc?  I have 3 different packs made under the REI name that have held up amazing to hundreds of miles each... one probably has thousands (smallest one for dayhikes).
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Racehorse

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Re: Backpacks
« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2009, 03:16:16 PM »
I have a Kelty Red Cloud, and I love it. Very comfortable, well made, and plenty of room to fit whatever I want. My wife has some sort of Vaude. It's also a good pack, but has some minor design annoyances and can't hold as much. She says it's very comfortable, though.

makattak

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Re: Backpacks
« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2009, 03:50:38 PM »
Kelty Slipperyrock does not show up on AltaVista search, on Kelty's web site nor on Ebay.

Sure it's made by Kelty?

I have one Kelty pack for my dog, and one extremely light (50 deg. F) sleeping back from Kelty... but I don't trust their gear for any real work back country.

What's your anticipated needs?  How many cubic inches, how much gear of what type, how many days, etc?  I have 3 different packs made under the REI name that have held up amazing to hundreds of miles each... one probably has thousands (smallest one for dayhikes).

It's used, and I assume it is a discontinued model. (I see no reason to purchase a new backpack when, as you pointed out, they last for thousands of miles).

My GOAL is to have a pack that would survive a Philmont-type trek. (10-14 days through the mountains, carrying all your needs... Might be more than my wife could or would want to handle, but it's a goal.)

Immediate needs are far less as I need to get myself and my wife conditioned for such a hike. More than likely it would be a tent, sleeping bag and gear for one-two nights with light hiking involved. At first, I'm guessing I would carry nearly all the weight.

As such, my current needs are limited: sufficient space for two people's gear for a short 1-2 day hike and comfortable.
I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

AZRedhawk44

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Re: Backpacks
« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2009, 04:16:17 PM »
Quote
It's used, and I assume it is a discontinued model. (I see no reason to purchase a new backpack when, as you pointed out, they last for thousands of miles).

They only last thousands of miles when constructed well.

I "dog" my dog's Kelty pack because the zippers aren't as nice as those on my REI bags, the buckles feel more brittle and the stitching is not double-reinforced like on my nicer packs.  You want self-repairing zippers.  You want strong reinforcement of the straps to the pack fabric.  You want adjustable height for the shoulder strap anchor.  You want a good padded waist belt.

Maybe Kelty has changed in the last 8 years... that's how long it has been since I've bought a pack other than the 1 I have for my dog.

2 weeks of hiking means a bigazz pack.  6000ci or so.  No point carrying a bunch of clothes, because you're going to be doing laundry in creeks and such anyways.  And 2 weeks worth of food... that means freeze dried or a fishing pole and a lot of reliance on good catches, or bunnies, or foraging somehow.

Considering your wife is coming too... freeze dried stuff.   =D

At 3 packets per day + snacks (GORP, trail mix, granola bars, whatever) that comes out to 30 to 42 food packets to carry.  And that's eating light.  Call it 50, for an emergency buffer and to break monotany.  Mountain House single serving stuff weighs about 4 ounces, so double serving stuff probably weighs about 8.  That's 25 pounds of food @ 50 packets. 

If each of you carried 25 of those packets, that's 12 pounds each and approximately 1/3 to 1/2 of your total internal pack capacity.

(Frankly, I've never done a trip > 4 days that I didn't forage somehow... usually fish and fruit.  That freeze dried stuff gets REALLY old after awhile.  Bring a fishing pole.)

Then you've got all the gear for 2 weeks in the wild.  Pack's gonna be bursting at the seams.

You'll want lots of places to strap stuff to the exterior.  Good candidate gear for outside the pack are sleep pad, tent (not the sleeping bag though: you want that dry at all costs), hatchet, water, cook gear, places to hang clothes to dry, quick access to snacks and first aid stuff.

Of course, that same 6000ci pack absolutely sucks for a 2-3 day hike.  Gear gets floppy in it unless you get really creative with cinch straps and bungee cords.  That's why 3500ci packs exist.   =)  If you're not serious about a long trek, I'd suggest you stick closer to that size.  You'll get better use out of it and enjoy them more.
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charby

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Re: Backpacks
« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2009, 04:24:09 PM »
I have a REI Eveningstar or something like that its 3500ci and its good for a long weekend solo trip. I have used it for 7 day trip when many of use shared the load.

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makattak

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Re: Backpacks
« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2009, 04:24:51 PM »
They only last thousands of miles when constructed well.

I "dog" my dog's Kelty pack because the zippers aren't as nice as those on my REI bags, the buckles feel more brittle and the stitching is not double-reinforced like on my nicer packs.  You want self-repairing zippers.  You want strong reinforcement of the straps to the pack fabric.  You want adjustable height for the shoulder strap anchor.  You want a good padded waist belt.

Maybe Kelty has changed in the last 8 years... that's how long it has been since I've bought a pack other than the 1 I have for my dog.

2 weeks of hiking means a bigazz pack.  6000ci or so.  No point carrying a bunch of clothes, because you're going to be doing laundry in creeks and such anyways.  And 2 weeks worth of food... that means freeze dried or a fishing pole and a lot of reliance on good catches, or bunnies, or foraging somehow.

Considering your wife is coming too... freeze dried stuff.   =D

At 3 packets per day + snacks (GORP, trail mix, granola bars, whatever) that comes out to 30 to 42 food packets to carry.  And that's eating light.  Call it 50, for an emergency buffer and to break monotany.  Mountain House single serving stuff weighs about 4 ounces, so double serving stuff probably weighs about 8.  That's 25 pounds of food @ 50 packets. 

If each of you carried 25 of those packets, that's 12 pounds each and approximately 1/3 to 1/2 of your total internal pack capacity.

(Frankly, I've never done a trip > 4 days that I didn't forage somehow... usually fish and fruit.  That freeze dried stuff gets REALLY old after awhile.  Bring a fishing pole.)

Then you've got all the gear for 2 weeks in the wild.  Pack's gonna be bursting at the seams.

You'll want lots of places to strap stuff to the exterior.  Good candidate gear for outside the pack are sleep pad, tent (not the sleeping bag though: you want that dry at all costs), hatchet, water, cook gear, places to hang clothes to dry, quick access to snacks and first aid stuff.

Of course, that same 6000ci pack absolutely sucks for a 2-3 day hike.  Gear gets floppy in it unless you get really creative with cinch straps and bungee cords.  That's why 3500ci packs exist.   =)  If you're not serious about a long trek, I'd suggest you stick closer to that size.  You'll get better use out of it and enjoy them more.

Thanks! That's all very helpful, especially the opinion about Kelty's construction.

Any other opinions on good or bad manufacturers to look at/avoid?
I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

AZRedhawk44

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Re: Backpacks
« Reply #7 on: April 23, 2009, 04:33:29 PM »
Gregory, Arcturex (sp?) and REI branded stuff are good.  REI is the cheapest of those three.  I tried on a Gregory in the store 10 years ago and fell in love with it, then looked at the price tag.  It was twice as much as the REI bag, but it was so comfortable!

Looking at prices now, Kelty is comparable in price whereas they used to be considerably cheaper.  Either they artificially raised their prices, or they upped the quality of their gear and adjusted price to match.  They may be worth looking at now, but they used to be more of a WalMart or Big5 brand store, and the more serious outdoors stores didn't bother carrying them in anything other than kid's gear.

Might be worth looking at now.  Can't hurt.  I wouldn't buy a Kelty online without inspecting the same model in person, though.  Or any pack, really.  You need to make sure it fits well.
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Modifiedbrowning

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Re: Backpacks
« Reply #8 on: April 23, 2009, 06:28:07 PM »
I have two Osprey packs that I have been very happy with.
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Re: Backpacks
« Reply #9 on: April 23, 2009, 06:56:59 PM »
Arcteryx makes very nice gear, but it's BIG money. Some other makers that spring to mind: Lowe Alpine, Gregory, The North Face, REI, Mountain Smith.

I have two Lowe Alpine packs, they work pretty well for me. As with anything else, the cheaper stuff isn't as nice as the more expensive gear.

dogmush

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Re: Backpacks
« Reply #10 on: April 24, 2009, 09:48:48 AM »
I use REI packs for my 3 day and under stuff.  It works very well, and is priced nicely.

Anything over that, I use my Arc'teryx.  My wife just bought one as well.  Yes, they're expensive.  But they're great packs.  Mine is 15 years old and has been all over the Alaska and Brooks ranges (and most of the Chugach).  It holds what I need, shows ext to no wear even after miles and miles, and is without a doubt the most comfortable pack I've ever worn.  If you're serious about a week or more backpacking, suck it up and by a good pack.  It's still less then $400, and will last close to forever.
This is the current version of mine.

I've tried on the Osprey's and they just fit wierd on me.  The construction looked good though.  If they fit you comfortably, they're probably a good bet too.

trapperready

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Re: Backpacks
« Reply #11 on: April 24, 2009, 11:39:01 AM »
I like the Osprey packs. I've got an Atmos 65 and my wife uses an Atmos 50. They've got the most comfortable suspension of any pack I've tried.


Jocassee

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Re: Backpacks
« Reply #12 on: April 24, 2009, 11:47:36 AM »
This thread covered backpacks a little differently but may be helpful too.

http://www.armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=18219.0
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cfabe

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Re: Backpacks
« Reply #13 on: April 24, 2009, 02:16:19 PM »
I'm not at all up to date on the latest pack designs. I have a 15 year old Kelty Red Cloud that has served me well. Two problems I've had are that the lift handle strap at the top ripped out from the seam when I had 60 lbs in it at Philmont and the belt buckle is worn and is due for replacement. Oh and some iodine stains from a busted bottle of Polar Pure. Other than that it's served me well and seems well suited to weekend trips as well as Philmont and similar long treks. I don't expect to replace it any time soon.

El Tejon

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Re: Backpacks
« Reply #14 on: April 24, 2009, 02:30:34 PM »
Quote
My current backpack went with me to Philmont 15 years ago and with another scout 15 years previously. As you may guess, many things have deteriorated

El Tejon=>former Philmont danger ranger. =D

First went out with Troop 494 in July of 1984. :O

Backpacks?  Look at Osprey.  Great gear.  Just got a kestrel for myself.

Osprey:  http://www.ospreypacks.com/

Rusted Moon outfitters (Indianapolis):  http://www.rustedmoonoutfitters.com/
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makattak

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Re: Backpacks
« Reply #15 on: April 25, 2009, 09:21:14 PM »
Alight, my wife and I went to REI tonight to try out some packs.

I'm considering the REI Flash 65, the Osprey Atmos and Kestrel.

We may take one of the "daypacks" for my wife as we are trying to keep the weight she is carrying down.

I now have a question no one may know the answer too:

The thing I particularly like about the Atmos is the ventilation system between your back and the pack. I sweat. A LOT. Especially on my back (Leather, in particular is a problem).

As such, I would most definitely prefer something that creates space between my back and the pack.

My concern is how durable that little pocket is. The mesh does not concern me so much as the metal that is in the frame that creates the pocket for ventilation.

Does anyone have any experience with these that can tell me how they hold up to a beating the time? Specifically, how long till they are bent of coming out of the fabric?
« Last Edit: April 25, 2009, 09:46:26 PM by makattak »
I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

roo_ster

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Re: Backpacks
« Reply #16 on: April 25, 2009, 09:41:17 PM »
makattak:

You sound like me, heat & sweat-wise.

My solution was to bypass all the high-dollar internal frame packs and go external frame.

Nowadays, I have two packs:
1. Large ALICE external frame pack.  This is for training around the neighborhood and SHTF.  Sucker does not have the internal capacity of the larger commercial packs, but gear can be hung off it like the Clampett's pickup truck.  Good for in excess of 100 lbs of gear.  I only broke pack frames on static line jumps.  Plus, it is tough.  Downside is marginal ergonomics, relative to the new internal frame packs. 

2. Commercial REI external frame pack.  Picked this up on a REI "garage sale."  It was a former rental pack.  Still works just fine.  LOTS of internal capacity.  Not as robust as teh ALICE, but more comfy.  Still gives up a lot of comfort to the internals.




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Ron

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Re: Backpacks
« Reply #17 on: April 26, 2009, 12:00:59 AM »
REI has a 100% satisfaction guarantee on anything you buy there. I personally have never heard of the frame stays ripping through the fabric or becoming deformed on an Osprey back pack.

Also if you choose to use a different vendor your Osprey pack would have a great warranty through the factory.
Quote
Osprey will repair for any reason, free of charge, any damage or defect in our product – whether it was purchased in 1974 or yesterday. If we are unable to perform a quality repair on your pack, we will happily replace it. We proudly stand behind this guarantee, so much so that it bears the signature of company founder and head designer, Mike Pfotenhauer.
http://www.ospreypacks.com/CustomerService/AllMightyGuarantee/

Having said that I don't care for the loading and carrying aspects of the packs with the curved frame f/ventilation.  That's a HYOH (hike you own hike) personal thing though. I was tempted to pick up a Flash 65 but I'm a little old school and carry a lot of contingency items. Nobody will ever accuse me of being an UL wanker.
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dm1333

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Re: Backpacks
« Reply #18 on: April 29, 2009, 09:48:07 AM »
Ron,

After retiring a lot of my gear and going light weight last spring the only wanking I have heard is from OTHER hikers!  Oh, I'm tired, how much further, my feet hurt, this pack is heavy, and on and on and on. :lol:

I can carry enough stuff and food for a week in my 1994 Kelty Redwing and still be comfortable out on the trail.

makattak,

If you are buying a new pack have you given any thought to new gear?  I'm quoting figures from memory but my old external frame pack weighed 6 pounds, my tent 4, my sleeping bag 4, my gore tex parka 2 and my gore tex pants 1 pound, for a total of 17 pounds.  I bought some new gear last spring and have been using a small Kelty Redwing to carry my stuff.  My new base load is pack 3lbs, tent 1.5 lbs, sleeping bag 1.5 lbs, gore tex park and pants 1 lb 1 oz.  Ten pounds cut off of my base load with no loss in function and a huge gain in comfort. 

The smaller pack is much more comfortable and it forced me to stop carrying around junk that I didn't really need.  I have enough room to pack food for a week and am able to walk much farther and be less tired at the end of the day.  Some good makers of lightweight but sturdy gear include Golite, Henry Shires Tarptents (no, they aren't all tarps), Montbell, Feathered Friends and ULA Gear.

Ron

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Re: Backpacks
« Reply #19 on: April 29, 2009, 12:45:43 PM »
Ron,

After retiring a lot of my gear and going light weight last spring the only wanking I have heard is from OTHER hikers!  Oh, I'm tired, how much further, my feet hurt, this pack is heavy, and on and on and on. :lol:

I can carry enough stuff and food for a week in my 1994 Kelty Redwing and still be comfortable out on the trail.

makattak,

If you are buying a new pack have you given any thought to new gear?  I'm quoting figures from memory but my old external frame pack weighed 6 pounds, my tent 4, my sleeping bag 4, my gore tex parka 2 and my gore tex pants 1 pound, for a total of 17 pounds.  I bought some new gear last spring and have been using a small Kelty Redwing to carry my stuff.  My new base load is pack 3lbs, tent 1.5 lbs, sleeping bag 1.5 lbs, gore tex park and pants 1 lb 1 oz.  Ten pounds cut off of my base load with no loss in function and a huge gain in comfort. 

The smaller pack is much more comfortable and it forced me to stop carrying around junk that I didn't really need.  I have enough room to pack food for a week and am able to walk much farther and be less tired at the end of the day.  Some good makers of lightweight but sturdy gear include Golite, Henry Shires Tarptents (no, they aren't all tarps), Montbell, Feathered Friends and ULA Gear.

Nothing wrong with lightweight gear at all! I try and save weight wherever possible. The UL guys will often sacrifice comfort or safety for the sake of a pound though. There is a difference between lightweight and the UL wankers, lol.

Where do you normally backpack and time of year are a couple of qualifying questions that have to be answered along with what gear and how heavy is it? Going light in the desert is easier than going light late fall early spring in the northwoods let alone winter camping.
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dm1333

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Re: Backpacks
« Reply #20 on: April 29, 2009, 03:06:19 PM »
Very true.  I know people who back pack without brining any bug repellant.  You couldn't survive on Michigans upper peninsula in the summer without DEET or something similar.  The lowest temps I have been out in with my new light weight stuff has been 30 degrees or so.  The first night out in those temps I was a little cool because all I wore was my very thin wicking layer.  After that night keeping my fleece on and wearing a fleece hat kept me toasty warm.  My Henry Shires tent has a floor, I may try using a tarp this summer when I am back in CA.  Here in Michigan an actual tent is great because it keeps bugs and rain out.

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Re: Backpacks
« Reply #21 on: April 29, 2009, 07:17:27 PM »
i was going to tell you to buy a camptrails pack, but when i googled i couldn't find them anymore. i bought one 27 years ago and would use that all summer on and off when i was younger. as i recall it had about 3000 ci, but expanded to 4000. lots of external pockets, and an external frame. the external frame is a bit bulkier, but i always found it would keep me cooler.
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Re: Backpacks
« Reply #22 on: April 29, 2009, 08:33:50 PM »


Having said that I don't care for the loading and carrying aspects of the packs with the curved frame f/ventilation.  That's a HYOH (hike you own hike) personal thing though. I was tempted to pick up a Flash 65 but I'm a little old school and carry a lot of contingency items. Nobody will ever accuse me of being an UL wanker.


I have a Stratos 24 for day hiking and UL 2-3 day hikes.  I haven't had a chance to do a week hike in a long time.  I have an Alice pack for medium weight carrying and a generic PX pack (no frame) for mega-weight loads.  Have plenty of utility bags and such, but no real long haul non-UL specialty hiking bags as I haven't needed one.

I do absolutely love the Stratos 24, it's extremely comfy and sits very well.   I do wish it had more attachment points.  The ventilation pocket is rather comfy.  It has an ok camelbak pocket, with appropriate ways of feeding the drinking tube.  Bit of a pain getting the tube run, but not exceedingly so.


I've always been gear/contingency intensive and I'm trying to somewhat break myself of the habit.  I'm not trying to go ultralight (except by my own standards), but cut down on the weight substantially. 
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