Author Topic: How many octanes for two-cycle?  (Read 1955 times)

Perd Hapley

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How many octanes for two-cycle?
« on: July 11, 2009, 11:50:32 AM »
So, apparently you're supposed to use 89 octane for your two-cycle engines? 

http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/tools/msg0716552028317.html

One guy says the 93 octane has too many additives.  Another guy says it's the detergents in mid-grade fuel, not the octanes, that matter.  Another guys says the 89 has detergents now, anyway, so might as well use 93.  And another guys says to use aviation fuel. 

If MY DAD has never heard of it, I'm skeptical.   :lol:  He said he'd try using the 89 octane, but that dude has been messing about with engines for a long time.  I'm surprised. 

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Marnoot

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Re: How many octanes for two-cycle?
« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2009, 12:17:27 PM »
Fuel "grades" only differ in octane, at least nowadays. Just use the lowest octane rating allowed in the manual, if you have it. And depending on altitude (probably a moot point for you fistful), you can go even lower. You can take about one octane point off the minimum per thousand feet of altitude above sea level.

And despite what some people still confusingly think, more octane doesn't give "more power", nor is octane a scam. Some cars/engines need higher octane due to tight timing to prevent pinging/knocking as the higher the octane rating, the "harder" it is to burn and thus less likely to prematurely explode.

Putting in higher octane than is required is a waste of money, and putting in lower octane will either cause knocking (and likely damage over time), or if the car is more modern it will retard performance and fuel economy as the car's computer detects knocking and retards the timing accordingly.

Used to be fuel makers would put better detergents in the higher grades of gas, but I'm not aware of any brands where that is the case any longer. For a little 2-cycle engine (I'm guessing like a weed trimmer?), you'd probably be safe with the lowest grade, especially if the manual doesn't specify anything higher.

drewtam

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Re: How many octanes for two-cycle?
« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2009, 12:26:17 PM »
Everything Marnoot said, plus...

Two-strokes are pretty low compression engines because of the way the side ports and scavenge system works. Beside that, I think the mixed  motor oil used for 2-strokes lowers the octane itself. (Motor oil is closer to diesels cetane behaviour than gasoline's octane behavior).
Therefore, it is highly unlikely you need anything above minimum octane.
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Re: How many octanes for two-cycle?
« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2009, 02:32:57 PM »
Screw it, go for the Av gas! 105 octane can't be all bad!  :laugh:

No, Av Gas, last I knew, still has lead in it. It'll foul the plug(s).

And, just to be disageeable, My truck (2001 E250 with the bigger 8 cyl) runs better on higher octane in terms of things like pulling hills (downshifting vs no downshifting) and acceleration. Ask my kid about the car too. If she cheaps out and puts regular in it I can tell almost immediately because it's a dog when she does and she always gets caught. These days I only run midgrade because it still runs ok and premium is just too expensive now.
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Re: How many octanes for two-cycle?
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2009, 02:50:22 PM »
I don't think your experience disagrees with what Marnoot said. Your van (modular 5.4L V8?) might be designed to take advantage of the potentials of higher octane in the software. The during heavy load (pulling hills and accelerating) the sensors may detect no knock. So the software advances the ignition timing a little bit-> still no knock -> advance the timing -> no knock -> etc. The software may be designed to do this until it hits knock or some pre-programmed advance limit.

As for the car; what make and model?

 
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Re: How many octanes for two-cycle?
« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2009, 03:13:15 PM »
First the 199o Plymouth 4 cyl and now the 1991 Lexus 6 cyl.

What I notice with the truck is depending on what octane I put in there are some hills that it will have to downshift if there's regular in the tank but not if there's mid or premium grade. Less downshift means less rpms which means less wear and tear on the motor and drive train. Basically it runs like crap with regular in it. No power. It annoys the hell out of me.  =D
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Re: How many octanes for two-cycle?
« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2009, 10:15:36 AM »
I have a handful of 2 cycle engines. I usually run 87 octane because that is the only fuel I can find in Ames, IA that doesn't have ethanol in it. I chose not to use ethanol fortified fuels in anything that is air-cooled because ethanol is an oxidizer and raises the temperature when the fuel is burnt.

Plus my outboard engines are about as old as I am and they weren't designed for gasohol.
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Re: How many octanes for two-cycle?
« Reply #7 on: July 13, 2009, 10:33:17 AM »
Good point. The alcohol plays hell with the rubber stuff in there. 3 years in a row I had to have the carb rebuilt on the snowblower because the alcohol was eating up the diaphragm. I uaed to just use the satabilizer thinking that's all I needed but now I make a point of running it out before I store it for the summer. Haven't had a problem since (knocks on wooden head).
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Re: How many octanes for two-cycle?
« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2009, 11:46:42 AM »
I have looked, and I am unable to find any gasoline in this area that does not have 10% ethanol in it year round. 
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Firethorn

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Re: How many octanes for two-cycle?
« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2009, 12:30:12 PM »
I have looked, and I am unable to find any gasoline in this area that does not have 10% ethanol in it year round. 

Might be state law.  Sorry.

Oh, and adding oil to gasoline should raise it's octane, not lower it.  Oil's harder to burn.

cfabe

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Re: How many octanes for two-cycle?
« Reply #10 on: July 13, 2009, 02:20:40 PM »
Use what the manual calls for. The only piece of equipment I have which calls for anything but 87 (if even specified) is my stihl chainsaw which states to use 89 minimum. It's a higher end saw so I figure they must have it tuned to run on 89. Everything else I have gets 87.

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Re: How many octanes for two-cycle?
« Reply #11 on: July 13, 2009, 02:23:29 PM »
Quote
And another guys says to use aviation fuel. 

Don't bother. Expensive and the 100LL (low lead) will still foul your plugs. Only pros is no ethanol and it's stable.

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Re: How many octanes for two-cycle?
« Reply #12 on: July 13, 2009, 02:27:55 PM »
Might be state law.  Sorry.


Apparently it is a Federal EPA requirement in most urban areas of the country.  It is done as an air pollution control measure.
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Re: How many octanes for two-cycle?
« Reply #13 on: July 13, 2009, 04:36:43 PM »
It is done as an air pollution control measure.

and as such it lowers gas mileage  :mad:
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Re: How many octanes for two-cycle?
« Reply #14 on: July 13, 2009, 05:56:23 PM »
Good deal for the gas companies though.  =|
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Re: How many octanes for two-cycle?
« Reply #15 on: July 13, 2009, 09:09:24 PM »
Not to mention the ethanol ranches.
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Tuco

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Re: How many octanes for two-cycle?
« Reply #16 on: July 13, 2009, 09:32:08 PM »
It's always a good idea to follow the manufacturer's recommendations.
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Re: How many octanes for two-cycle?
« Reply #17 on: July 14, 2009, 05:37:46 AM »
It's always a good idea to follow the manufacturer's recommendations.
Uh, That would involve reading the instuctions though, wouldn't it?  :O

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JonnyB

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Re: How many octanes for two-cycle?
« Reply #18 on: July 14, 2009, 11:13:32 AM »
It is done as an air pollution control measure farm subsidy.

and as such it lowers gas mileage  :mad:

Fixed it.  =)

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Re: How many octanes for two-cycle?
« Reply #19 on: July 14, 2009, 01:15:30 PM »
It's always a good idea to follow the manufacturer's recommendations.

But cereally, my chainsaw instructions say (besides 'don't cut your foot off') use fresh 91 octane. 
So I do.

If Fistful is running a Tecumseh or Briggs & Stratton, I'm sure a googlefu yellowbelt could figgger out the manufacturer's recommendations. 
If it's a Husky or Stihl, even easier.
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