Author Topic: The Strange World Of Dr. Anthrax  (Read 2411 times)

roo_ster

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The Strange World Of Dr. Anthrax
« on: March 01, 2010, 01:42:27 PM »
I think the only reason the guy wasn't into more twisted shinola was that there are only 24 hours in the day. 

Heck, who wouldn't call it a day after cross-dressing, getting tied up, sending off anthrax in a letter, and hating on Dick Cheney & the Yankees?

* Size 24 lingerie: $57
* Black leather riding crop: $89
* Weapons-grade anthrax: Free for the taking at work
* Quoted In a July 2008 e-mail, Ivins wrote that "Dick Cheney scares me. The Patriot Act is so unconstitutional it's not even funny." He added, "I'm voting for Obama!": Priceless






http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2010/0301101ivins1.html

MARCH 1--After the Department of Justice last month formally closed its probe of the 2001 anthrax attacks, the FBI released the first batch of documents detailing the years-long investigation that ended with officials concluding that Bruce Ivins, a government scientist who committed suicide in July 2008, was responsible for the mailings that killed five victims. The records, released pursuant to Freedom of Information Act requests, portray Ivins as becoming increasingly unhinged as it became clear that he was the principal target of the FBI's "Amerithrax" probe. Additionally, the memos--a selection of which you'll find on the following pages--reveal how agents examined every aspect of Ivins's life, monitored his e-mails, searched his trash, and were even surveilling his Maryland home at the exact time he was inside overdosing. Despite being an FBI target, Ivins was often forthcoming about the details of his strange obsessions and private life. For example, as seen below, when agents executed search warrants in late-2007, an FBI supervisor asked Ivins if he was worried about those raids. Ivins said he was, noting that he did things a "middle age man should not do," adding that his actions would "not be acceptable to most people." He then noted that agents searching his basement would find a "bag of material that he uses to 'cross-dress,'" according to an interview report. During a January 2008 meeting with agents, Ivins described his bizarre decades-long "obsession" with the Kappa Kappa Gamma sorority, and detailed how he broke into two KKG chapters to steal ritual books used by the group. He also told of "another of his obsessions, blindfolding or bondage." Three months before his suicide, surveillance agents sifted through trash Ivins left at his curb and discovered that the beleaguered scientist was disposing of pornographic magazines, fetish titles, and 15 pairs of stained women's panties. When an FBI lab analysis of the underwear showed that semen was detected on 14 of the garments, a grand jury directive was issued to obtain DNA from Ivins. That sample was taken July 21, 2008, five days before the scientist's Tylenol overdose (Ivins died on July 29 at age 62). The FBI records show that some Ivins acquaintances shared with the FBI e-mail and instant message communications exchanged with the scientist. In a July 2008 e-mail, Ivins wrote that "Dick Cheney scares me. The Patriot Act is so unconstitutional it's not even funny." He added, "I'm voting for Obama!" A laboratory co-worker reported that Ivins hated the New York Yankees and thought New Yorkers were "elitist." The bureau even memorialized Ivins's e-mail musings about how "disgraceful" it was that soccer players frequently took "dives" while faking injuries. After years of investigation (and dozens of interviews), the last time the FBI spotted Ivins in the flesh was in the early morning hours of July 27, 2008. A surveillance agent sitting outside Ivins's home noted that fire and rescue teams responded to the residence at 1:15 AM after receiving notice that an unresponsive male was found in an upstairs bedroom. At 1:30 AM, the agent reported, "BRUCE IVINS observed leaving residence on stretcher." (15 pages)
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roo_ster

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MicroBalrog

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Re: The Strange World Of Dr. Anthrax
« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2010, 02:02:48 PM »
But hey, at least it's not a wookie suit, right?
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AJ Dual

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Re: The Strange World Of Dr. Anthrax
« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2010, 03:52:48 PM »
I'm amazed at how many "smart" and "talented" people are absolutely bonkers. Like it's a mild version of a savant syndrome where frontal-lobe behavior moderation and self-awareness are stunted by the enhanced abilities in other areas.

Aside from goofball scientists, I wonder if it applies to actors and musicians too, that a certain percentage of those who have "what it takes" are deficient in other areas, leading to chaotic tabloid-cover lifestyles. And said chaos is not a function of the corrosive effects wealth/fame, but a simple mental deficit at the expense of other talents.
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MillCreek

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Re: The Strange World Of Dr. Anthrax
« Reply #3 on: March 01, 2010, 04:11:37 PM »
And yet, there are still so many unanswered questions about the ability of Dr. Ivins to grow and weaponize the agent.  I am especially troubled by the silicone coating on the spores, which I understand takes quite sophisticated knowledge and equipment to do and which he allegedly did not possess.  There are many BW experts who postulate the existence of a national BW program behind this. 
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Hawkmoon

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Re: The Strange World Of Dr. Anthrax
« Reply #4 on: March 01, 2010, 04:28:11 PM »
And yet, there are still so many unanswered questions about the ability of Dr. Ivins to grow and weaponize the agent.  I am especially troubled by the silicone coating on the spores, which I understand takes quite sophisticated knowledge and equipment to do and which he allegedly did not possess.  There are many BW experts who postulate the existence of a national BW program behind this. 

I didn't think Ivins grew the stuff himself. I thought he was working in a lab that dealt with weapons grade anthrax and that he just "liberated" some of it.

There's a lot of stuff our gummint does that would scare the panties off the local tea & coffee clatch. Years ago I was stationed at Edgewood Arsenal, MD ... which some of may know is (or at least was then) the United States Army Chemical Warfare Center. My barracks backed up on one end of the runway of the small airstrip on post. I looked out the window of the barracks one day and saw deer grazing beside the runway. I mentioned to someone who had been there longer than I how nice it was to see the deer grazing.

He looked at me like I was nuts and asked if I knew why the deer were there. I didn't. Turns out, deer were more susceptible than humanoids to the types of chemical weapons being developed, so they kept the deer around as an early warning system. If we saw deer dropping in their tracks, it was time to break out the hazmat gear.
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Re: The Strange World Of Dr. Anthrax
« Reply #5 on: March 01, 2010, 04:30:23 PM »
I may've skimmed, but it seemed like the FBI was more concerned with the guy's underwear issues than his  anthrax collection.  ???

Scout26

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Re: The Strange World Of Dr. Anthrax
« Reply #6 on: March 01, 2010, 04:38:57 PM »
Weird sexual fetishes =/= sent Anthrax to Congress/News media.

Where's the proof ??
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HankB

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Re: The Strange World Of Dr. Anthrax
« Reply #7 on: March 01, 2010, 04:44:28 PM »
I may've skimmed, but it seemed like the FBI was more concerned with the guy's underwear issues than his  anthrax collection.  ???
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Ned Hamford

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Re: The Strange World Of Dr. Anthrax
« Reply #8 on: March 01, 2010, 04:49:38 PM »
I have this notion in my head that his crazy was seen as a continuing source of office amusement and they didn't want it to stop.

I am sharing this info round the office now. 

All round, stealing girl's panties and sorority ritual books while a middle aged man and not some somewhat excusable fraternity prank... sounds like he should have been locked up well before the anthrax thing.
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Tallpine

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Re: The Strange World Of Dr. Anthrax
« Reply #9 on: March 01, 2010, 05:24:43 PM »
Weird sexual fetishes =/= sent Anthrax to Congress/News media.

Where's the proof ??

Well, he was a little "weird" so he must be guilty, don't you see ?   :police:

Surely there must be some sort of symbol that we could make people like this wear on their clothes so we know who they are  =|
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Re: The Strange World Of Dr. Anthrax
« Reply #10 on: March 01, 2010, 05:25:07 PM »
Just cause he looks better in a size 12EE pumps....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0fzeVbicd4  =D =D =D
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Re: The Strange World Of Dr. Anthrax
« Reply #11 on: March 01, 2010, 06:51:12 PM »
Why did the article come out now. 

Federales failed to develop a court caliber case.  The perp suicides himself.  One would think that was that.  Finish off the beer and go home.  But no, we get treated info on the man's private life after he is gone and can no longer defend himself. 

One could make a case governmental authorities is trying to destroy the character of a dead man.  Wonder why.
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Re: The Strange World Of Dr. Anthrax
« Reply #12 on: March 01, 2010, 07:51:46 PM »
talk him up so more like him will think this is a way to become famous, well famous and dead. ???

roo_ster

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Re: The Strange World Of Dr. Anthrax
« Reply #13 on: March 01, 2010, 10:09:54 PM »
Weird sexual fetishes =/= sent Anthrax to Congress/News media.

Where's the proof ??

I may've skimmed, but it seemed like the FBI was more concerned with the guy's underwear issues than his  anthrax collection.  ???

Why did the article come out now. 

Federales failed to develop a court caliber case.  The perp suicides himself.  One would think that was that.  Finish off the beer and go home.  But no, we get treated info on the man's private life after he is gone and can no longer defend himself. 

One could make a case governmental authorities is trying to destroy the character of a dead man.  Wonder why.

 [tinfoil]

OK, I'll admit to letting my tinfoil beanie show in the, "How convenient, to pin the blame on the dead freak," sort of way.

But, sometimes an irrational misogynistic freak is just a freak, and not the subject of Conspiracy Theory: The Bondage Years.
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roo_ster

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Regolith

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Re: The Strange World Of Dr. Anthrax
« Reply #14 on: March 01, 2010, 10:36:37 PM »
And yet, there are still so many unanswered questions about the ability of Dr. Ivins to grow and weaponize the agent.  I am especially troubled by the silicone coating on the spores, which I understand takes quite sophisticated knowledge and equipment to do and which he allegedly did not possess.  There are many BW experts who postulate the existence of a national BW program behind this. 

Somewhere I read that the anthrax was not in fact weaponized, and that it was misreported as such by the media.  The source for this were the scientists who had examined the anthrax used in the attacks.

I can't seem to find the article again, though...
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Hawkmoon

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Re: The Strange World Of Dr. Anthrax
« Reply #15 on: March 01, 2010, 10:38:56 PM »
Why did the article come out now.

Because someone filed an FOI request, that's why. The law requires it if the information isn't classified, or sealed by a court.
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Re: The Strange World Of Dr. Anthrax
« Reply #16 on: March 01, 2010, 11:05:55 PM »
Quote
But, sometimes an irrational misogynistic freak is just a freak, and not the subject of Conspiracy Theory: The Bondage Years.
Maybe. From what little I see, it looks like "he was a possibility. We don't actually have a clue who did it, so we'll just say the dead guy did it and move on to something else."
It's a bit disturbing, also, that any FedGov data on myself re: actual guilt or innocence in a crime is classified, but exact detail on porno magazines I have and my various and sundry sex habits/hobbies/interests/etc is not. Maybe I should file a FOIA and make sure everything's up to date.  :lol:

MillCreek

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Re: The Strange World Of Dr. Anthrax
« Reply #17 on: March 01, 2010, 11:09:26 PM »
Somewhere I read that the anthrax was not in fact weaponized, and that it was misreported as such by the media.  The source for this were the scientists who had examined the anthrax used in the attacks.

I can't seem to find the article again, though...

I have been following this story with great interest, being originally trained as an analytical chemist.  There have been a number of stories, such as in the New York Times, the LA Times, the Wall Street Journal, and the like about the weaponization of the spores.  The spores were much much smaller than what occurs with natural growth, and appear to have been coated with silicone.  Both of these measures allow the spores to float freely and enter the lungs more easily.  It also requires expensive and sophisticated equipment to do this, and this equipment is not available at USAMRIID, where Dr. Ivins worked.  Several biowar experts have stated that only a state-funded BW lab, such as found in Russia, Iraq or China would have had the milling and coating technology as was seen here.  

So I think there may be much more to this story than we yet know.  Perhaps Dr. Ivins was a scientific genius who was able to do all this, but I remember that the FBI also thought that Dr. Stephen Hatfill was the suspect before they started looking at Dr. Ivins.
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MillCreek

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Re: The Strange World Of Dr. Anthrax
« Reply #18 on: March 01, 2010, 11:27:54 PM »
From one of the WSJ articles I read which highlights some of my concerns with the Ivins case:

Silicon was used in the 1960s to weaponize anthrax. Through an elaborate process, anthrax spores were coated with silicon to preventing them from clinging together so as to create a lethal aerosol. But since weaponization was banned by international treaties, research anthrax no longer contains silicon, and the flask at Fort Detrick contained none. Yet, the anthrax grown from it had silicon, according to the US Armed Forces Institute of Pathology. This silicon explained why when the letters to Senators Patrick Leahy and Tom Daschle were opened, the anthrax vaporized into an aerosol. If so, then somehow silicon was added to the anthrax. But Dr. Ivins, no matter how weird he may have been, had neither the set of skills nor the means to deliberately attach silicon to anthrax spores. At minimum, such a process would require highly-specialized equipment, such as a jet mill, that did not exist in Ivins’ lab– or, for that matter, anywhere at the Fort Detrick facility. As Richard O. Spertzel, a former bio-defense scientist who worked with Ivins, explained, the lab didn’t even deal with anthrax in powdered form, adding "I don't think there's anyone there who would have the foggiest idea how to do it." So while Dr. Ivins’ death provided a convenient fall guy, the silicon content still had somehow to be explained.

The FBI’s answer was that the anthrax contained only traces of silicon and those, it theorized, could have been accidently absorbed by the spores from the water and nutrient in which they were grown. No such nutrients were ever found in Ivins’ lab, nor, for that matter, did anyone ever see Dr. Ivins attempt to produce any unauthorized anthrax (a process which would have involved him using scores of flasks.) But since no one knew what nutrients had been used to grow the attack anthrax, it was at. least possible that they had traces of silicon in them which accidently contaminated the anthrax.

Natural contamination was an elegant theory that ran into problems after Congressman Jerry Nadler pressed FBI Director Robert S. Mueller III in September 2008 to provide the House Judiciary Committee with a missing piece of data: the precise percentage of silicon contained in the anthrax used in the attacks. The answer came seven months later. According to the FBI lab, 1.4% of the powder in the Leahy letter was Silicon. "This is a shockingly high proportion," explained Dr. Stuart Jacobson, an expert in small particle chemistry. "It is a number one would expect from the deliberate weaponization of anthrax, but not from any conceivable accidental contamination." Nevertheless, in an attempt to back up its theory, the FBI contracted scientists at the Lawrence Livermore National Labs in California to conduct experiments in which anthrax is accidently absorbed from a media heavily-laced with silicon. When the results were revealed to the National Academy Of Science in September 2009, they effectively blew the FBI’s theory out of the water. The Livermore scientists had tried 56 times to replicate the high silicon content without any success whatsoever. Even though they added increasingly high amounts of silicon to the media, they never even came close to the 1.4 percent in the attack anthrax. Most results were indeed an order of magnitude lower, with some as low as .001 percent. What these tests inadvertently demonstrated is that the anthrax spores could not have been accidently contaminated by the nutrients in the media. " If there is that much silicon , it had to have been added, " Jeffrey Adamovicz, who supervised Ivins work at Fort Detrick, wrote to me. He added that the silicon signature in the attack anthrax could have been added via a large fermerntor– which Battellle and other labs use" but "we did not use a fermentor to grow anthrax at USAMRIID [and] We did not have the capability to add silicon compounds to anthrax spores."

If Dr. Ivins had neither the equipment or skills to weaponize anthrax with silicon, then some other party, with access to the anthrax, must have done it. Even before these startling results, Senator Leahy had told Mueller , "I do not believe in any way, shape, or manner that [Ivins] is the only person involved in this attack on Congress." So, even though the public believed that the Anthrax case had been closed more in 2008, the FBI investigation was back to square one in late 2009.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2010, 11:38:11 PM by MillCreek »
_____________
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MillCreek
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Quote from: Angel Eyes on August 09, 2018, 01:56:15 AM
You are one lousy risk manager.

Scout26

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Re: The Strange World Of Dr. Anthrax
« Reply #19 on: March 02, 2010, 12:34:41 AM »
Maybe I should file a FOIA and make sure everything's up to date.  :lol:

Got it all on tape !!!   =D =D =D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xV6_7otLBRE
Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.


Bring me my Broadsword and a clear understanding.
Get up to the roundhouse on the cliff-top standing.
Take women and children and bed them down.
Bless with a hard heart those that stand with me.
Bless the women and children who firm our hands.
Put our backs to the north wind.
Hold fast by the river.
Sweet memories to drive us on,
for the motherland.