Gamer/Graphics PC & Graphics Card Questions

[roo_ster]

Howdy:

Looking for a desktop/workstation for my FIL (who will give it to my boy for Christmas).  My FIL is completely ignorant and I am somewhat less so, seeing as this is a higher-end gamer-type performance box. 

Reqs/Constraints/Prefs:
* Budget is up to $2k(1) for system
* Must play RealFlight G5
* Prefer nVidia video cards
* Prefer business class workstations to consumer/game boxes
* FIL down on Dell, up on HP, neutral on Lenovo
* Really can't go white box / bare bones / refurb this go 'round
* Win7 64 bit, not sure if Pro, Ultimate, or the Home version.
* Pref Intel quad-core 64 bit CPU.  I7 or maybe Xeon equivalent
* HD likely a sub-1TB SATA at 7200PRM.  Size not an issue, will buy USB or eSATA external HD later.
* Prefer tower & minitower cases, bigger = better to work in
* Pref 4-6GB RAM (can never have too much)
* Cheap optical drive, maybe just a DVD writer, will buy external Blue Ray later


My druthers are to buy a business-class workstation with the 3 year parts/labor/next-day on-site no-bull warranty.  These seem to come with a different line of graphics cards than the home/gamer machines.

As for graphics cards...
I am inclined toward nVidia, as they have had open & better drivers IME.  We have had less trouble with them at work.

The home model machines come with the GeForce line of cards while the business boxes come with Quadro cards.  What's the big difference, if any? The best bang/buck nVidia seems to be the Quadro 600 (http://www.nvidia.com/object/product-quadro-600-us.html).









Main Graphics-Intensive Application:

RealFlight G5 (RC Plane & Helo Trainer/App)
http://www.realflight.com/index.html

Minimum Recommended System-
- Some graphical features may be disabled - Aerodynamic Calculations will still be high-quality Windows®* XP, Windows* Vista™ or Windows* 7 *Administrator Access Required
Intel Pentium 1.0GHz or equivalent
512 MB RAM
4 GB Hard Drive Space
DVD Drive
3D Accelerated Video with:
    - 32 MB Dedicated Video Memory
    - Full DirectX 9 compliant (Pixel Shader 1.4 support)

More Optimal System-
- For best graphical performance
Dual Core 2.4GHz CPU
2 GB RAM
3D Accelerated Video with:
    - 512 MB dedicated video memory



(1) I would not spend that sort of money, but it is his money.  I am just trying to help him spend it (more) wisely.  This is after talking him down from a laptop.

[bedlamite]

If you can assemble it yourself and forego a household name, this will do more than you asked for at about half your 2K limit:

motherboard
cpu
memory
video card
hard drive
DVD/CD
case
power supply
KB/mouse
monitor
OS

You could probably throw in a nice scanner/printer too.

[AZRedhawk44]

$2k is ridonkulous for a new computer today.

$1k buys a wild ride.

Another vote for build it yerself.  For the bottomfeeder level PC you don't get ahead, but for a top end machine you get a 30-50% return on your investment by doing it yourself, as well as no nasty surprises (too weak of a power supply, "integrated" video memory with system memory, vendor-proprietary display adapter chipsets, insufficient spare PCIe busses, etc).

Other stuff?

-Go 1.5TB or higher.  It's $60 nowadays for a 1.5TB drive.
-Either go 8GB, or go 4GB.  6GB is a waste of money and memory slots.  I recommend 8GB.
-Go Blu-Ray now.  You can get it, building yourself, with the rest of the system, for less than $1000.  No need to waste $40 on a DVD-RW if the goal is BR.

Video cards are sorted by generation (the 4th digit of their model number) and by featureset/clockspeed (the 3rd digit of their model number).  An Nvidia 9900GT will blow the pants off of an Quadro 600 (being an 0600 or "10"600).  Same goes for ATI chipsets.  If a card 1 gen lower in your price range has a higher 3rd digit and more memory, it's probably the smarter buy.

For the love of all that is Zardozy, though, avoid any video card lower than x600 in the third digit.  They are teh suk.  Low memory and low clock, stripped chipset features.

[dogmush]

My gaming tower is a year old now and still kicks major butt.

Core i7
12Gb ram
Nvidia GTX 275 2Gb video card
Liquid cooled.

I bought it last Aug for $1600, I would imagine you could get it for less then $1400 now. I've run COD:MW2, DragonAge:Origins, Fallout3 and Fallout: New Vegas on it wide open with no problems at all, I'm sure it could handle RealFlight.

Had it built for me here: iBuyPower

They were pretty good about talking to me on the phone and making sure they built what I wanted too.

ETA: A quick run through their online customizer shows a 2.9Ghz Core i7, 16Gb Ram, 2Gb Nvidia GTX 460, 1.5TB Hard drive and good power supply will run you just shy of $1400.  Could probably tweak it a little buy playing with case and lighting choices.

[RaspberrySurprise]

If memory serves the quadro cards are more designed for heavy cad work and such and not gaming, if you want a big gaming card go for a GTX series card.

[cordex]

Had it built for me here: iBuyPower

I was going to order a computer from them, but after reading through their customer feedback forum, I decided against it.  Glad you had a good experience.  The prices weren't bad at the time.

[Zardozimo Oprah Bannedalas]

Get this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883147322
Or this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883147321

Then add a 500-ish watt power supply and $150 video card (or so). I've got a tower of similar size and power. Runs all the new stuff at max. Think the two I linked are just PCI Express, not PCIe 2.0 - so don't buy the newest cards.

[Thor]

I'm an AMD Freak. I just recently built a system, on the cheap. Gigabyte motherboard, AMD PhenomII X6 processor, 4 GB ram, 360 GB hard drive to start, DVD writer, 600 watt power supply (another thing one can never have too much of), and a Thermaltake Soprano RS101 Case . The hardware cost me right at $550. I just recently added a card reader and a 2 TB hard drive for $115 total. My next addition will be a 1 GB Video Card (minimum). I prefer NVidia, myself. As of present, the onboard video serves me well as I watch movies that I stream to my TV and stereo.

[roo_ster]

Well, I finally specced out, bought, and received the machine.

Since it was really my FIL's gift to my son, I went with his preferred vendor (HP).  I have been warming to HP over the years, as their products have improved and others (Dell, Gateway) have declined in quality. 

I decided against the business models, as the business graphics cards are crazy expensive.  I spent more and did it differently than if I were to do it my own way, but such is life.  My FIL is under the impression that I know a thing or two about computers, IT, networking & such and (get this) actually listens to me when I speak about them.  He wanted to get my son a solid machine that would last a few years, and have a warranty. 

As his proxy, I made it happen.

As for inscrutable model numbers, it is an HP Pavilion Elite HPE-480t

    * • Genuine Windows 7 Professional 64-bit
    * • Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-930 quad-core [2.8GHz, 1MB L2 + 8MB shared L3 cache]
    * • 12GB DDR3-1066MHz SDRAM [6 DIMMs]
    * • FREE UPGRADE! 1.5TB 7200 rpm SATA 3Gb/s hard drive from 750GB
    * • Microsoft(R) Office Home and Student 2010
    * • Norton Internet Security(TM) 2011 - 3 year
    * • 1GB NVIDIA Geforce 460 [2 DVI, mini-HDMI, VGA adapter]
    * • No speakers
    * • LightScribe 16X max. DVD+/-R/RW SuperMulti drive
    * • Integrated Ethernet port, No wireless LAN
    * • 15-in-1 memory card reader, 1 USB, 1394, audio
    * • No TV Tuner
    * • Integrated sound
    * • HP USB keyboard and optical mouse

Also got the 4 year in-house warranty and a sweet 25" HD LCD/LED monitor (HP 2509m)

Just under $2K without sales tax, $2126 with tax.  I picked up the difference.


I also purchased the RC Plane simulator Real Flight G5.5 & controller for $200.  It runs that puppy with all options set at max with no trouble whatsoever.  It is a very impressive machine and that RF G5.5 is a terrific little simulator.  Not sure if they are doing the physics real-time, but they do the physics very, very well. 

I am having my son start of with the view off the nose, so he can get a feel for what the controls do to the plane.  After he has all that down, we'll up the difficulty and change POV to a RC controller on the ground.  He already can take off with any of the FW machines and fly around for a bit.  He gets a little disoriented when he goes inverted, "That's when you die," but got better when I showed him how the ailerons worked.  Some of the FW are out of his league, such as the ducted fan & turbine models, as well as the VTOL critters.  RW is out of the question for now. 

I am doing my best to keep ahead of his skills.  I've studied flight since a 4th grade enhanced program covered FW flight, but not flown full-scale, RC, or anything much at all.  I can already tool around and mostly not crash, so I am starting to do stuff like cut the power at times to see if I can bring it in.  I also try to fly close to obstacles and damage the model (but not destroy it) to see if I can bring in a damaged plane.

[cordex]

Looks like a very nice system.  Spendy for the features, but you knew it would be since you weren't building it yourself.

Did it come with much bloatware?

[roo_ster]

Looks like a very nice system.  Spendy for the features, but you knew it would be since you weren't building it yourself.

Did it come with much bloatware?

I quite agree, but I figured I was acting as my FIL's proxy and did my best by him while still respecting his wishes.  I figured that it was his preference that cost him more money. 

Bloatware?  Much less than I expected.  A few HP-specific utilities which were no biggie to turn off.  We paid for the anti-malware that came with it, as well as MS Office.  Only thing I might consider traditional bloatware are a few of the video tools/players that seem inferior to some open-source analogs I have used before.  That's it. 

A few years back I bought a Korean laptop that was so gnarly with bloatware I nuked it 10 minutes after getting home and installed OEM WinXP.  This new HP is so bloatware-free, I have no plans to nuke it and start over.

I then set my login and user logins to the least-CPU-hogging Win Classic modes and it is an easy box to administer and use.