light weight backpacking tent and sleeping pad

[dm1333]

I'm in the market for a new tent and sleeping pad. 

My current pads are an old Ridgerest and a Neo Air.  I like the Neo Air but the pad gets soft at night after the temp drops and my hips end up touching the ground(i'm a side sleeper).  The pad isn't leaking, either.  Exped makes the UL 7 which weighs about the same as the Neo Air but is much thicker when inflated.  Is anybody using one?  Do you end up touching the ground as the pad gets soft?

I'm also looking for a light tent.  Less than four pounds, hopefully less than three would be a good start.  It should be a freestanding dome (I know you have to stake out most rainflys but that is pretty simple).  If it is a one person it should have a vestibule big enough to store a pack and boots.  No single wall tents, condensation is an issue.  Some of the tents I have been considering are one person tents like the Big Agnes Seedhouse SL1, REI Quarterdome, MSR Hubba Hubba (I think that is the name) and something from Sierra Designs that I can't recall right now.

Thanks.

[charby]

Asking for the moon might be easier.

You do know that pads are more for insulation from the ground than actual padding?

[dm1333]

Thanks for the snarky non answer!  But I'll bite, why might it be easier to ask for the moon?  Your comment about the pads also makes me think you have no experience with inflatable pads.   

[RevDisk]

Thanks for the snarky non answer!  But I'll bite, why might it be easier to ask for the moon?  Your comment about the pads also makes me think you have no experience with inflatable pads.   

I have spent weeks out in the field.  The insulation aspect of a pad is more important.  In a pinch, trash bags filled with leaves does perfectly well. Comfy factor is nice, but secondary.  But to each their own.

[dm1333]

Mods, delete this thread please. 

[RevDisk]

Mods, delete this thread please. 

Actually, I'm kinda interested in buying a lightweight tent my own self and was kinda interested in this.   I can create another thread, if you like?

[dm1333]

Nope, if you want we can keep this thread open but after the first reply I saw this whole thing going downhill.  What is your definition of light weight tents?  Mine is under 4 pounds at a minimum, 3 is much better.  The problem with getting down past 3 pounds is that you end up with a single wall tent and condensation issues.  I'm not impressed with the single wall tents I've owned. 

Some of the three season tents that I have been looking at are the Big Agnes Copper Spur, the Nemo OB1P, REI Quarterdome, MSR Hubba Hubba and a few others whose names I can't remember right off the bat.  Big Agnes makes another tent, the Fly something, and Nemo makes an ultralight two person tent that also look pretty good.

As far as pads go fillling a trash bag with leaves is not much of an option after you've slept on an inflatable pad. 

[RevDisk]

Nope, if you want we can keep this thread open but after the first reply I saw this whole thing going downhill.  What is your definition of light weight tents?  Mine is under 4 pounds at a minimum, 3 is much better.  The problem with getting down past 3 pounds is that you end up with a single wall tent and condensation issues.  I'm not impressed with the single wall tents I've owned. 

Some of the three season tents that I have been looking at are the Big Agnes Copper Spur, the Nemo OB1P, REI Quarterdome, MSR Hubba Hubba and a few others whose names I can't remember right off the bat.  Big Agnes makes another tent, the Fly something, and Nemo makes an ultralight two person tent that also look pretty good.

As far as pads go fillling a trash bag with leaves is not much of an option after you've slept on an inflatable pad. 

As for the trash bag thing, it wasn't exactly my first choice.  Didn't have a pad handy.  Had rocks, dirt, trees, leaves.  Worked better than expected, though.

mmm, for the sub 3 pounds, what if you used a tarp suspended over the tent?  Personally, I don't like the single walled either.  I'm looking for two tents, actually.  A fairly light three season, and a sturdy four season.  Low weight is always nice, but isn't a huge deal for me. 

[Ron]

The Seedhouse SL1 is kind of free standing and isn't really a dome.

When it is set up properly you really need the two stakes at the foot of the tent to spread it out, you need to stake out the fly on the sides as well for maximum interior room and keeping the fly off the mesh.

Overall I'm really happy with it and use it as my "go to" backpacking tent on trips without a tentmate.

I haven't noticed my Neoair getting significantly soft overnight.

The REI Quarterdome T2 is on clearance right now. If you get the gear mail emails you should have received a coupon for 30% off a single clearance (REI) item. That would put you in the T2 for around $140 (clearance price is $200).

[Jamisjockey]

What about a bivvy?

http://www.campmor.com/outdoor-research-alpine-bivy.shtml?source=CI&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=81533
2 pounds.
Add in a lightweight tarp strung over the bivvy and you have a cozy living area.  Hard to do that in a one man tent.
http://www.campmor.com/outdoor/gear/Product___28028
If you use a tarp, you can leave some of the outer rain shell componetry of the bivvys at home.  

Whats your budget?

Mods, delete this thread please. 

No need.  Yeah, the first answer was a little snarky, but the point is still there.

[Scout26]

APS is known for snark and thread drift.  And yes, you'll also get some helpful answers as well.   

[Jamisjockey]

Oh, and if you have the leaves or pine needles available, they make a good base layer. Put them down nice and thick. Put one/two person tent over them.  Pad and sleeping bag inside. Winning!

[charby]

Thanks for the snarky non answer!  But I'll bite, why might it be easier to ask for the moon?  Your comment about the pads also makes me think you have no experience with inflatable pads.  

I spend at least 20 days a year in the field on a Thermarest. Just got back from 5 nights in the BWCA.

Freestanding tents are usually a little on the heavier side because of the extra poles needed to make them free standing. I use a REI Clipper (free standing 2 man tent) which weighs in at 5 lbs without the bags. Many of the tents you mentioned are around the same weight.

If you really are looking for super ultralight then you are probably going to have to look at some of the options outside dome tents. There are some pretty lightweight tarp tents that utilize your trekking poles are tent poles. Some of the ones I have seem are even double wall, where the tent body is mesh and has a tarp that is used as a rain fly.

If you are looking at shedding pounds look at other items you pack in like extra clothes, food and cook gear.

[AZRedhawk44]

If you are looking at shedding pounds look at other items you pack in like extra clothes, food and cook gear.

I just switched from a CampinGaz cook stove with the butane/propane non-refillable fuel cylinders, to an alcohol stove made from an aluminum bud light bottle.  Saves me about 2 pounds total weight on a trip.



As far as tent/pad, I run a cheap Walmart-special $20 Wenzel pup tent.  It's advertised as a 2 man tent, but it's cramped with me and my dog in there.  It's almost a bivvy.  The roof slants upwards near the entrance, and downwards towards the toes.  There's very little fiberglass pole infrastructure... just enough to make it freestanding but not over-heavy.  I expected it to only last a handful of trips, but it's held up for about 4 years at this point.

It's a little over 3 pounds, packed.  At $20-$25, it's worth fielding with once to try out.  I do have a sil-nylon tarp to use as an augmentary rain fly.  It adds another couple ounces to my load.

http://www.amazon.com/Wenzel-Starlight-2-Person-Hiker-Biker/dp/B0019X3ZWW/ref=cm_rdp_product

I just changed from a Thermarest self-inflater pad to a Gossamer Gear ThinLight 1/8" pad.

http://gossamergear.com/sleeping/1-8.html

I never got any satisfactory padding out of a thermarest style pad anyways, so I went for weight reduction and insulation.  This is my 3-season pad.  In the event I go out in the winter, I'd take the 1/8" pad plus my thermarest for maximum insulation from the cold ground.

I also second Jamis' and Rev's suggestion regarding using natural ground insulation.  That's the only weight-sensible way to get any padding from the hard ground while in the field.

[Jamisjockey]

The only thing I don't like about cheap tents is they are not always very sturdy in less-then-ideal weather conditions.
A good, properly strung tarp, though, can shield your little tent from the worst mother nature can dish.  It also gives you a small area outside of the tent shielded from the elements for food prep and gear stoarge. 
Depending on resources and time available, another thing to consider is building a natural lean-to over your tent, and over your cooking area. 

Padding under the sleeping area provides insulation from the ground and additional padding to whatever manmade gear you've brung.   I've spent a few nights in a sleeping bag on a foam pad on a pile of pine needles under a tarp. 

[Brad Johnson]

I'm in the market for a new tent and sleeping pad. 

My current pads are an old Ridgerest and a Neo Air.  I like the Neo Air but the pad gets soft at night after the temp drops and my hips end up touching the ground(i'm a side sleeper).  The pad isn't leaking, either.  Exped makes the UL 7 which weighs about the same as the Neo Air but is much thicker when inflated.  Is anybody using one?  Do you end up touching the ground as the pad gets soft?

I have a couple buddies that live to camp.  Just gave them a call and they are both using memory foam mattress pads made for single beds.  They love them.  Admittedly a bit bulky when rolled up, though, and a good bit heavier than an air pad, so maybe not the best option if you're hiking far or having to carry a lot of gear.  They said to be sure and use some kind of liner or plastic sheet under them as the foam attracts dirt and debris something fierce and is a royal PITA to clean.

Brad

[AZRedhawk44]

The only thing I don't like about cheap tents is they are not always very sturdy in less-then-ideal weather conditions.
A good, properly strung tarp, though, can shield your little tent from the worst mother nature can dish.  It also gives you a small area outside of the tent shielded from the elements for food prep and gear stoarge. 
Depending on resources and time available, another thing to consider is building a natural lean-to over your tent, and over your cooking area. 

Padding under the sleeping area provides insulation from the ground and additional padding to whatever manmade gear you've brung.   I've spent a few nights in a sleeping bag on a foam pad on a pile of pine needles under a tarp. 

What cracks me up though, is the glaring similarities between "cheap" tents and "good" tents when it comes to structural integrity.

$300+ ultralighter tents have a lot of the same foibles as the tiny 2 man wenzel/coleman/etc cheapos.  Thin, easily torn fabric.  A "bathtub" floor with no sealing at all, or "walls" that only come up an inch or two from the ground.  The cheap tents give you crap tent stakes you then have to replace with good ones, and the "good" tents give you no tent stakes at all (or cheapie ones).  The "good" ones will sometimes require you to use your trekking poles for support rods.  The cheap ones come with fairly fragile (but lightweight!) fiberglass collapsing rods, and in either case you can improvise a support rod in the field very expediently.

However, when I can buy 10-15 cheap tents for the cost of 1 "good" tent, and when experience shows me that a cheap tent that starts a trip in good condition will also finish a trip in comparable condition, and when I can augment its single core weakness (wind/rain/storm strength) with some paracord and a 2 ounce silnylon tarp... my pocket book just keeps coming back to the Walmart/Target/Amazon shelf.

[charby]

What cracks me up though, is the glaring similarities between "cheap" tents and "good" tents when it comes to structural integrity.

How far off the road do you camp? Last week my first night in the BWCA was 11 miles from the road, if a storm rolled in that night I want to make damn sure that I stayed dry and my tent didn't collapse from the wind. When a trip is planned, no matter what the weather is I still go.

In regards to fiberglass poles, they are pretty weak compared to the aluminum that come with the name brand backpacking tents. I used to be a faithful Coleman 3 person dome tent user until I tried to spend the night (spring 05) in during a 6" rain with 60mph winds. I ended up with 4" of water in my tent that was blown through the rain fly and the flimsy fiberglass poles allowed the tent to smack me in the face during the storm.

As soon as I got home from the trip I went out and bought a Kelty Mantra 3 tent (freestanding no trekking poles required weighs 6lbs) for $150 and went through two similar storms that summer without a drop of water in the tent or any of the poles flexing from high winds. The only reason I bought my REI clipper (freestanding, no trekking poles required, weighs 5lbs) last spring is that after 120ish nights in the Kelty it was starting to show some signs of wear. Tent is still usable but I don't want to trust it on wilderness trips, I'll still use it when I car camp.

In a nutshell I buy quality camping gear because I need it to work when I put it through its paces, same reason I don't buy cheap guns or optics. It has to work.

[AZRedhawk44]

How far off the road do you camp?

Backpacking distance.  I only car-camp during hunting trips, and I use a big sturdy 6-man unit then.

But, I typically spend night 1 out about 4-5 miles from the trailhead.  Night two will usually be about 10 miles further... I like hiking slowly and casually, taking time to swim somewhere or explore side-trails if the urge takes me.

I've been rained on in the Olympic forest in WA while camped at Lena lakes.  I've been rained on in the Olympic forest up near Elk lake.  I've been rained on in the Cascades near Rimrock lake.  I've been caught in a T-storm in the AZ Superstitions.

I tend to plan my trips so that weather isn't an issue, and I haven't been caught out in bad weather during a trip in several years, so I haven't tested this tent in  bad weather.  But, the guy lines are well placed and sturdy.  Quality tent stakes don't get ripped up.  And using my silnylon tarp as a rain fly helps ablate wind crush, especially if used as a windscreen on the down-wind side.

The only place where this tent isn't well suited, would be a rocky and barren area like southern Utah or northern AZ, near the Grand Canyon.  Simply too much wind exposure and no reliable ground to pound a stake into. 

[Jamisjockey]

The only place where this tent isn't well suited, would be a rocky and barren area like southern Utah or northern AZ, near the Grand Canyon.  Simply too much wind exposure and no reliable ground to pound a stake into. 

Thats the problem I had with a super cheapo tent many years ago.  Wind during a thunderstorm flattened it during the night with the wife and I in it.  Not fun.  Of course that was a dome tent, which has a higher profile.

[Ron]

Tent rain flies frequently have velcro straps that wrap around the poles on the inside where they line up with guy out points on the outside.

Using the velcro and guying out your tent properly will help keep it from pancaking in a windstorm.

The other thing that makes me shake my head, floppy rainflys. There are nearly always some type of buckles to tension the rain fly when on the tent. Using the above mentioned velcro straps also helps keep the fly properly aligned while you TIGHTEN THE FLY LIKE A DRUM! If the fly is tight and guyed out properly, the tent, poles and fly become one very strong interconnected structure. If the fly is loose and floppy it becomes a wind sail putting stress on the tent it isn't designed to withstand.

Can't tell you how many times folks have come in looking for a new tent with tales of collapsed tents, I always ask them whether they used the velcro and guyouts, they nearly always sheepishly admit no, they didn't. Cinched the fly tight as a drum? uhhh, kind of...

Stake out your tent using all attachments, use the guyouts properly (if expecting strong winds) and the chances of a decent modern dome style tent with aluminum poles failing are reduced to freak events.

[Tallpine]

Mods, delete this thread please. 

You're getting two tents.

[Angel Eyes]

Re sleeping pad: another vote for Thermarest.

Re tents: I have a Eureka that works well.  Can't remember the specific model, but it's advertised as accommodating two people (they would have to be pretty friendly with each other).

http://store.eurekatent.com/tents?m=583&c=0&o=adwords&gclid=CJKj84WplqoCFQgbQgodmwoKyQ