Author Topic: did you folks see the Heritage EMP thing?  (Read 5056 times)

gunsmith

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did you folks see the Heritage EMP thing?
« on: November 17, 2011, 01:10:47 AM »
very interesting, your opinions please?
Do you plan to have an extra computer/sensors for your car in a safe place?

http://www.heritage.org/events/2011/08/emp-day
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RoadKingLarry

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Re: did you folks see the Heritage EMP thing?
« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2011, 01:28:32 AM »
My '68 Jeep and '52 Allis Chalmers would likely be unaffected. Sourcing fuel would be the tricky part.

I think the EMP threat is a little overblown. Sure regional outages could be severe and things like LD communications and the Internet would suffer but unless you're relatively close to a major target city it just wouldn't be that big a deal. Besides, all your good stuff is stored in a faraday cage isn't it?
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wmenorr67

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Re: did you folks see the Heritage EMP thing?
« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2011, 01:33:57 AM »
The way I understand it as long as the stuff is turned off they shouldn't be effected.
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AZRedhawk44

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Re: did you folks see the Heritage EMP thing?
« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2011, 02:03:27 AM »
The way I understand it as long as the stuff is turned off they shouldn't be effected.


Not my understanding at all.

Been described to me as a spontaneous spark or pulse that will permanently lock micro-solenoid gates in microcontrollers in either open or closed position.  Doesn't matter if current is running through the device at the time or not.  The only protection to EMP is to have circuits that are so old/heavy that they require more amperage than can be delivered via EMP to cause them to trigger and stay locked in place.

But, I'm not a physics authority and I didn't sleep in a Holliday Inn Express last night, so I would gladly defer to Physics or Birdman here if they'd like to 'splayn.
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gunsmith

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Re: did you folks see the Heritage EMP thing?
« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2011, 02:14:30 AM »
The way I understand it as long as the stuff is turned off they shouldn't be effected.


nope, that's why a lot of military stuff was hardened during the cold war
Politicians and bureaucrats are considered productive if they swarm the populace like a plague of locust, devouring all substance in their path and leaving a swath of destruction like a firestorm. The technical term is "bipartisanship".
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Boomhauer

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Re: did you folks see the Heritage EMP thing?
« Reply #5 on: November 17, 2011, 05:35:57 PM »
Quote
Do you plan to have an extra computer/sensors for your car in a safe place?

Do you know how much money an extra computer and enough sensors to provide minimal functioning would be for the average car?

Not less than 1K, likely. Not to mention the knowledge you'd need to replace them and the time.

It's cheaper and faster to jack a horse.

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Tallpine

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Re: did you folks see the Heritage EMP thing?
« Reply #6 on: November 17, 2011, 05:40:51 PM »

It's cheaper and faster to jack a horse.



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MillCreek

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Re: did you folks see the Heritage EMP thing?
« Reply #7 on: November 17, 2011, 05:43:23 PM »
I have often thought that a good post-apocalypse vehicle will be one of my mountain bikes.
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gunsmith

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Re: did you folks see the Heritage EMP thing?
« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2011, 05:46:39 PM »
Do you know how much money an extra computer and enough sensors to provide minimal functioning would be for the average car?

Not less than 1K, likely. Not to mention the knowledge you'd need to replace them and the time.

It's cheaper and faster to jack a horse.



I was thinking pick and pull maybe, & giving the local mecanic a sandwhich since he will be starving or something.... or simply when I get another vehicle getting an older pre computer one
Politicians and bureaucrats are considered productive if they swarm the populace like a plague of locust, devouring all substance in their path and leaving a swath of destruction like a firestorm. The technical term is "bipartisanship".
Rocket Man: "The need for booster shots for the immunized has always been based on the science.  Political science, not medical science."

Nick1911

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Re: did you folks see the Heritage EMP thing?
« Reply #9 on: November 17, 2011, 05:50:00 PM »
Reminds me of the 1984 Mercedes Diesel I saw for sale recently for $1000.

But really, if 98% of cars aren't running, I don't know that I really want to be one of the 2% driving around.  Makes for way too much of a target.  Rule 1, blend in.

gunsmith

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Re: did you folks see the Heritage EMP thing?
« Reply #10 on: November 17, 2011, 05:54:15 PM »
true enough but I'm really far away from civilization, the only one to blend with is the neighbor five miles away, he has several old 70's diesels and a 500 gallon tank of the stuff
Politicians and bureaucrats are considered productive if they swarm the populace like a plague of locust, devouring all substance in their path and leaving a swath of destruction like a firestorm. The technical term is "bipartisanship".
Rocket Man: "The need for booster shots for the immunized has always been based on the science.  Political science, not medical science."

Angel Eyes

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Re: did you folks see the Heritage EMP thing?
« Reply #11 on: November 17, 2011, 05:57:58 PM »
I shoot back  :P

He said "cheaper and faster", not safer.
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cosine

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Re: did you folks see the Heritage EMP thing?
« Reply #12 on: November 17, 2011, 06:08:39 PM »
How would a motorcycle work as a post-apocalypse vehicle? Are there a lot of electronics in modern motorcycles which would get fried? How far back do you have to go to get a "pre-electronics" motorcycle?
Andy

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Re: did you folks see the Heritage EMP thing?
« Reply #13 on: November 17, 2011, 06:59:54 PM »
Quote
Are there a lot of electronics in modern motorcycles which would get fried?

My '01 Road king is fuel injected. Not only does it have the OE computer controls it has the tuner module I added.

I'm good though =D


If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

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gunsmith

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Re: did you folks see the Heritage EMP thing?
« Reply #14 on: November 17, 2011, 10:04:25 PM »
How would a motorcycle work as a post-apocalypse vehicle? Are there a lot of electronics in modern motorcycles which would get fried? How far back do you have to go to get a "pre-electronics" motorcycle?

yup. modern bikes are toast, not sure how far back you gotta go-probably pre 79 when kick start was standard. Maybe modern kick start dirt bikes would work though
Politicians and bureaucrats are considered productive if they swarm the populace like a plague of locust, devouring all substance in their path and leaving a swath of destruction like a firestorm. The technical term is "bipartisanship".
Rocket Man: "The need for booster shots for the immunized has always been based on the science.  Political science, not medical science."

gunsmith

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Re: did you folks see the Heritage EMP thing?
« Reply #15 on: November 17, 2011, 10:05:41 PM »
Politicians and bureaucrats are considered productive if they swarm the populace like a plague of locust, devouring all substance in their path and leaving a swath of destruction like a firestorm. The technical term is "bipartisanship".
Rocket Man: "The need for booster shots for the immunized has always been based on the science.  Political science, not medical science."

gunsmith

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Re: did you folks see the Heritage EMP thing?
« Reply #16 on: November 17, 2011, 10:12:56 PM »
Quote
First:   Another brief note about severe solar storms (and similar natural events), and then I'll get back to nuclear EMP.  Solar storms would primarily affect the power grid, and are not likely to harm things like computers.  Also, solar storms would only disrupt communications temporarily, and would not be likely to cause direct harm to communications equipment (except for satellites).   An extremely large solar storm, though, would induce geomagnetic currents that could destroy a substantial fraction of the very largest transformers on the power grid (possibly over much of the world).  If this happened, electric power loss due to a large solar storm would be out for a period of years and possibly decades.  Unlike nuclear EMP, such a solar storm is an eventual inevitability.

The last solar storm that could have caused this level of damage happened in 1859, before the power grid was in place (although in 1921 a large solar storm, of briefer duration than the 1859 event, occurred which affected only a small area of the planet).  The power grid has only been in place for a tiny fraction of one percent of human history, and a really large solar storm (of the size and duration of the 1859 event) has not happened in that time.  There is a general assumption that any solar event that is similar to, or larger than, the 1859 solar superstorm will simply never happen again, although there is no justification for such an assumption -- in fact, we know that this assumption is false. There is a good possibility that such a solar storm will happen in this century.  If it happens in the current situation without spares for our largest transformers, a large part of the worldwide power grid (including 70 to 100 percent of the United States power grid) will be down for years.
http://www.space.com/13517-giant-sunspot-unleashes-massive-solar-flare.html

http://www.space.com/12584-worst-solar-storms-sun-flares-history.html
Politicians and bureaucrats are considered productive if they swarm the populace like a plague of locust, devouring all substance in their path and leaving a swath of destruction like a firestorm. The technical term is "bipartisanship".
Rocket Man: "The need for booster shots for the immunized has always been based on the science.  Political science, not medical science."

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Re: did you folks see the Heritage EMP thing?
« Reply #17 on: November 18, 2011, 07:21:32 AM »
Regards,

roo_ster

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gunsmith

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Re: did you folks see the Heritage EMP thing?
« Reply #18 on: November 19, 2011, 01:03:55 AM »
I know, but getting politicritters to spend on stuff that doesn't increase their personal power is difficult.

Has anyone watched the vid? they don't come across as crywolf types-opinions?
Politicians and bureaucrats are considered productive if they swarm the populace like a plague of locust, devouring all substance in their path and leaving a swath of destruction like a firestorm. The technical term is "bipartisanship".
Rocket Man: "The need for booster shots for the immunized has always been based on the science.  Political science, not medical science."

birdman

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Re: did you folks see the Heritage EMP thing?
« Reply #19 on: November 20, 2011, 08:33:37 AM »
Not my understanding at all.

Been described to me as a spontaneous spark or pulse that will permanently lock micro-solenoid gates in microcontrollers in either open or closed position.  Doesn't matter if current is running through the device at the time or not.  The only protection to EMP is to have circuits that are so old/heavy that they require more amperage than can be delivered via EMP to cause them to trigger and stay locked in place.

But, I'm not a physics authority and I didn't sleep in a Holliday Inn Express last night, so I would gladly defer to Physics or Birdman here if they'd like to 'splayn.

High altitude EMP would have the described horrible effects, equipment turned off or on, unless it's protected.  In this case, all the TEOTWAWKI books that start with an EMP attack are pretty valid.  Large scale solar disruption would have the grid effecs, but likely wouldn't permanently damage non-grid connected devices due to the lower fields.