Author Topic: Implanted chips in our troops?  (Read 2333 times)

LAK

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Implanted chips in our troops?
« on: August 23, 2006, 03:37:01 AM »
Funny to see things like this popping up now and treated seriously - among many - about which not only was there much scoffing, the scoffing was encouraged and fed by many who claimed to be on top of all things political ....

.... "Its like getting a shot of penicillin. .....

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http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2006/8/21/232558.shtml

NewsMax.com
Monday, Aug. 21, 2006 11:21 p.m. EDT
Implanted Chips in Our Troops?

A Florida company wants to get under the skin of 1.4 million U.S. servicemen and women.

VeriChip Corp, based in Delray Beach, Fla., and described by the D.C. Examiner as "one of the most aggressive marketers of radio frequency identification chips," is hoping to convince the Pentagon to allow them to insert the chips, known as RFID (Radio Frequency Identification) chips under the skin of the right arms of U.S. servicemen and servicewomen to enable them to scan an arm and obtain that persons identity and medical history. The chips would replace the legendary metal dog tags that have been worn by U.S. military personnel since 1906.

The device is usually implanted above the triceps area of an individuals right arm, but can also by implanted in the hand if scanned at the proper frequency. The VeriChip responds with a unique 16-digit number, which can correlate the user to information stored on a database for identity verification, medical records access, and other uses. The insertion procedure is performed under local anesthetic, and once inserted it is invisible to the naked eye.

The company, which the Examiner notes has powerful political connections, is "in discussions with the Pentagon, VeriChip spokeswoman Nicole Philbin told the Examiner. "The potential for this technology doesnt just stop at the civilian level, Philbin said. Company officials have touted the chips as versatile, able to be used in a variety of situations such as helping track illegal immigrants or giving doctors immediate access to patients medical records.

On Monday the Department of State started to issue electronic passports (e-passports) equipped with RFID chips. According to reports the U.S. government has placed an order with a California company, Infineon Technologies North America, for smart chip-embedded passports.


The Associated Press said the new U.S. passports include an electronic chip that contains all the data contained in the paper version name, birth date, gender, for example and can be read by digital scanners at equipped airports. They cost 14 percent more than their predecessors but the State Department said they will speed up going through Customs and help enhance border security.

The company's hefty political clout is typified by having former secretary of the Department of Health and Human Services, Tommy Thompson, on its board of directors.

Thompson assured the Examiner that the chip is safe and that no one  not even military personnel, who are required by law to follow orders  will be forced to accept an implant against his or her will. He has also promised to have a chip implanted in himself but could not tell the Examiner when.

"Im extremely busy and Im waiting until my hospitals and doctors are able to run some screens," he told the newspaper.

Not everybody agrees with Thompson, the Examiner reported, noting that the idea of implanting the chips in live bodies has some veterans groups and privacy advocates worried.


"It needs further study, Joe Davis, a retired Air Force major and a spokesman for the D.C. office of the Veterans of Foreign Wars, told the Examiner.

And Liz McIntyre, co-author with Katherine Albrecht of "Spychips: How Major Corporations and Government Plan to Track your Every Move with RFID," said that VeriChip is "a huge threat to public privacy.

"Theyre circling like vultures for any opportunity to get into our flesh, McIntyre told the Examiner. "Theyll start with people who cant say no, like the elderly, sex offenders, immigrants, and the military. Then theyll come knocking on our doors.

In an e-mail to the Examiner, Sen. Patrick Leahy, D-Vt., wrote: "If that is what the Defense Department has in mind for our troops in Iraq, there are many questions that need answers. "What checks and balances, safeguards, and congressional oversight would there be? Leahy asked. "What less-invasive alternatives are there? What information would be entered on the chips, and could it endanger our soldiers or be intercepted by the enemy?

The company, the Examiner wrote, is also unsure about the technology. According to company documents, radio frequencies in ambulances and helicopters could disrupt the chips transmissions. In a filing with the Securities and Exchange Commission, VeriChip also said it was unsure whether the chip would dislodge and move through a persons body. It could also cause infections and "adverse tissue reactions, the SEC filing states.

But Philbin downplayed the danger of the chips.

"Its the size of a grain of rice, she said. "Its like getting a shot of penicillin.

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CatsDieNow

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Implanted chips in our troops?
« Reply #1 on: August 23, 2006, 04:18:28 AM »
Excellent.  Now if any of our miltary folks get captured they have to worry about the enemy trying to locate and remove the chip.  

Sounds like a bad movie plot to me.

bedlamite

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Implanted chips in our troops?
« Reply #2 on: August 23, 2006, 04:54:46 AM »
Quote
.... "Its like getting a shot of penicillin. .....
I'm allergic to penicillin.
A plan is just a list of things that doesn't happen.
Is defenestration possible through the overton window?

Sergeant Bob

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Implanted chips in our troops?
« Reply #3 on: August 23, 2006, 05:15:49 AM »
Quote
The company's hefty political clout is typified by having former secretary of the Department of Health and Human Services, Tommy Thompson, on its board of directors.
Frakkin' whore.
Personally, I do not understand how a bunch of people demanding a bigger govt can call themselves anarchist.
I meet lots of folks like this, claim to be anarchist but really they're just liberals with pierced genitals. - gunsmith

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ilbob

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Implanted chips in our troops?
« Reply #4 on: August 23, 2006, 09:09:04 AM »
I bet that would go over like a lead balloon with the troops.

Probably less well then the benefits of the dubious anthrax vaccine.
bob

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lee n. field

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Implanted chips in our troops?
« Reply #5 on: August 23, 2006, 12:21:24 PM »
Ahh Verisign -- the Energizer Bunny advocating for the Mark o' the Beast.
In thy presence is fulness of joy.
At thy right hand pleasures for evermore.

Jamisjockey

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Implanted chips in our troops?
« Reply #6 on: August 24, 2006, 04:20:51 AM »
Upsides and downsides....
Probably good for troops that get captured....
but overall, kinda scary *expletive deleted*it.
Howabout putting one in thier boot, or in thier dog tags....or something like that, that isn't so freakin' invasive....
JD

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Lennyjoe

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Implanted chips in our troops?
« Reply #7 on: August 24, 2006, 05:53:39 AM »
Screw that, over my dead body.

Art Eatman

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Implanted chips in our troops?
« Reply #8 on: August 24, 2006, 09:22:48 AM »
I don't claim it as absolute fact, but I've read that a problem for the graves registration guys in Vietnam was that the dogtags had often been stolen by VC/NVA.  ID was then a problem.  Same sort of thing for the MIAs whose bodies later were found in a decomposed state.  

If a GI is wounded, an RFID with a medical history would be a Good Thing for a Corpsman with a scanner, or a forward MASH.

Separately, I read that Infineon, a German company, is gonna make the RFIDs for our new Passports.  The scanning device must be within ten centimeters (four inches) of the RFID.

Art
The American Indians learned what happens when you don't control immigration.

RadioFreeSeaLab

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Implanted chips in our troops?
« Reply #9 on: August 24, 2006, 10:45:58 AM »
Quote
Thompson assured the Examiner that the chip is safe and that no one  not even military personnel, who are required by law to follow orders  will be forced to accept an implant against his or her will.
Yet.

My answer to this, as a civilian, is "no."
I will not be chipped, ever, end of story.

Guest

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Implanted chips in our troops?
« Reply #10 on: August 24, 2006, 10:53:05 AM »
I'm against this in principle, but im sure that a badly wounded soldier who lost his tags would be quite comforted to know that the field hospital had ready access to his bloodtype and allergies to several popular medications and that he will never be filling an "unknown" grave.

People greatly overestimate the ability to "track" chips like this. It would be of no use whatsoever in locating lost or captured troops. It is essentially a surgically implanted dog-tag that can be read with a device from outside the body and contains substantially more information. Is that advantage worth the distasteful notion of having a chip implanted? I'm not sure it would be for me, but I am not getting shot at on a regular basis and I have a common bloodtype and no unusual allergies or malladies.

280plus

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Implanted chips in our troops?
« Reply #11 on: August 24, 2006, 12:09:08 PM »
I'd say if they made it optional I'd be better with it.
Avoid cliches like the plague!

Norris

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Implanted chips in our troops?
« Reply #12 on: August 24, 2006, 04:22:45 PM »
If TPTB start implanting chips, I think the citizens will start implanting hot lead. Tommy Thompson is the brother of Ed Thompson, former Libertarian candidate. Methinks they are both "Council on Foreign Relations" types.

RadioFreeSeaLab

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Implanted chips in our troops?
« Reply #13 on: August 24, 2006, 05:14:37 PM »
Quote
If TPTB start implanting chips, I think the citizens will start implanting hot lead
Really? I think the citizens will roll over, grab a beer, and say "I have nothing to hide!" "It's for our safety!"

280plus

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Implanted chips in our troops?
« Reply #14 on: August 25, 2006, 12:23:27 AM »
Well, for one example what about chronically ill persons? Wouldn't it be a great advantage to have your mecical records on you at all times? So if you collapse alone somewhere you do not become John or Jane Doe with no cluse as to what's wrong with you. But like I said, nobody should EVER be forced to do it.
Avoid cliches like the plague!

MicroBalrog

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Implanted chips in our troops?
« Reply #15 on: August 25, 2006, 03:27:54 AM »
People volunteer to join the United States Army.

When they do this, they give up certain rights. Your commander can ban you from reading the KJV bible if this will be crucial to the success of the mission.

Would I want a RFID chip or any other such chip?

No.

Is it useful for the purpose of saving US soldier lives and assuring victory in the field? Yes.

This should be definitely available as a voluntary options? Sure!

There's a LOT of positive implications for this, not just negative.

Should this be mandatory? God no.
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

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Waitone

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Implanted chips in our troops?
« Reply #16 on: August 25, 2006, 04:01:06 AM »
Quote from: Sergeant Bob
Frakkin' whore.
Ain't the half of it.  TT was in the house and was lead congressional negotiator for the much famed and justifiably maligned prescription drug bennie approved by congress.  It started at $60 billion and estimates stopped at $250 billion IIRC during the debate.  Then after it was approved stories came out it would actually cost $800 billion.  No idea what current cost projections are now.  Back to the story.  Thompson retired from public life to take a job as the president of the pharmaceutical lobby group in DC; the very same group that was so helpful in crafting the bill.

Don't know about your sense of smell but that just pegged my BS meter.
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Art Eatman

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Implanted chips in our troops?
« Reply #17 on: August 25, 2006, 05:25:50 AM »
The medics can implant an RFID; they can also take it out.  There are many things in the military that are done for the benefit of the overal system--and "individual rights" aren't really part of the deal.  Don't like it?  Don't join.  It's easy enough to have such a chip removed at one's end of service.

For civilians, it should be purely voluntary.  I can see benefits, specifically for the very elderly who might suffer mental debilitation:  Senility, Alzheimer's...

If a parent wants an RFID in his kid, fine; the civilian kid grows up, decides he doesn't want the chip; out it comes.

As usual, you can play "What if...?" 'til Hell freezes over:  So you're youngish, healthyish, and at the beach without ID--and you have a stroke and can't talk.  Your family finds out you died, after they file a missing person report.  RFID?  The medics know your history, if any, and your family at the very least might have some closure.

Sure, anything can be abused.  Work toward laws protecting against abuse, but don't deny the beneficial uses.

Art
The American Indians learned what happens when you don't control immigration.

RadioFreeSeaLab

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Implanted chips in our troops?
« Reply #18 on: August 25, 2006, 05:32:21 AM »
I don't deny beneficial uses.  My problem, is that I do not trust the government to keep it a voluntary thing forever.  Eventually, they'll want to tag us for our "own good" and it will be mandatory.

Stetson

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Implanted chips in our troops?
« Reply #19 on: August 25, 2006, 06:37:10 AM »
Hmmm..

Anyone read The Traveler by John Twelve Hawks?  New fiction, but after this story, Im not so sure.

MicroBalrog

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Implanted chips in our troops?
« Reply #20 on: August 25, 2006, 07:51:37 AM »
Guys, it's just a technology.

It's like guns. Excellent in the right hands, HORRIBLE in the wrong ones.
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner