Author Topic: Troubleshooting showers  (Read 3561 times)

Firethorn

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Troubleshooting showers
« on: November 12, 2013, 04:12:45 AM »
Ahem, I'm in something of a 'nondisclosed location' right now, and have the problem that most of the showers available are cold - the situation is that most of them are pretty much stuck at a set temperature, not matter how you turn the knob.  We have ONE that works correctly, gloriously correctly.  Which just works to tease us that it can work.   :'(

Each shower unit has it's own water heater unit (1.5kw), which uses those flexible metal connectors into the wall, which leads to one of these. Quite the nice unit, right?  Still, Intel is that the local plumbing crew is 'incompetent' to say the least and that last time they tried to fix the showers they took a month to make it worse.

I can see the lines on the water heater twitch when I switch the water on/off, but when I turn the hot water shutoff valve off I see no difference in temperature or pressure.  

Any advice on what the problem could be?  I did manage to get the handle off of one of the units and verified that it's not the stop washer.  I've also checked the water shut-off valves.  The water heaters have power and are turned up.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2013, 01:27:33 AM by Firethorn »

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Re: Troubleshooting showers
« Reply #1 on: November 12, 2013, 06:07:41 AM »
without taking one apart best guess is some nimrod did the anti scald reassembly wrong. it happens.   a lot.  they completely strip diverter for soldering.

second guess is they powered up.the heaters dry cooked elements

damn phone
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Firethorn

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Re: Re: Troubleshooting showers
« Reply #2 on: November 12, 2013, 07:14:03 AM »
without taking one apart best guess is some nimrod did the anti scald reassembly wrong. it happens.   a lot.  they completely strip diverter for soldering.

second guess is they powered up.the heaters dry cooked elements

damn phone

So not something I could fix with a multitool?  Darn it.  Was hoping it'd be something like 'screw this valve open a touch more to allow more hot water in'. 

I'll have to figure out some method of checking to see if the heater is working.

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Re: Troubleshooting showers
« Reply #3 on: November 12, 2013, 07:28:18 AM »
might be able to di it with agood multi tool.  its a matter of moving some toothed plasic dics aroud. if yo can get it open you are set. is it held in with a clip? the diverter guts

damn phone
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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Firethorn

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Re: Re: Troubleshooting showers
« Reply #4 on: November 12, 2013, 07:32:31 AM »
might be able to di it with agood multi tool.  its a matter of moving some toothed plasic dics aroud. if yo can get it open you are set. is it held in with a clip? the diverter guts

damn phone

I got the handle off of one of them, removed the stop washer that normally limits how hot the system can get, and turned it until it'd turn no more, then reassembled everything.  I take it the part in question is deeper in?

geronimotwo

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Re: Troubleshooting showers
« Reply #5 on: November 12, 2013, 08:27:27 AM »
some units can have the innards put in backwards.  this will result in the cold being the hot and vice versa.  since they still sense for warm temps they keep the "cold" side (now the hot water) shut down.  or it could be they plumbed the cold to the hot side and switching the innards may fix it.  you should be able to do that if you have access to the stops (shutoff valves).  some controls have the stops built-in and can be accessed when the faceplate is removed, they typically look like large flathead screws.   what brand are they?
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MechAg94

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Re: Troubleshooting showers
« Reply #6 on: November 12, 2013, 09:29:42 AM »
If you can see the wires, can you get a cheap current meter and measure how much current the heater is drawing?  If it is heating, it should be drawing power.  

Not sure about the difference between burned out and shut off if you can't actually see the elements.  See if you can get it to turn on while unplugged and check resistance across the heater.  If it is burned out, I would expect a disconnect giving really high or infinite ohms.  If the switch is on and the element is healthy, I think you ought to see a measureable resistance.  If you can measure at the element without going through the switch, even better.

That gets pretty close to the limit of my electrical knowledge.  Beyond that it is just stuff about not letting the magic smoke out of the wires and a half assed explanation of how motor exciters work.
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Brad Johnson

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Re: Troubleshooting showers
« Reply #7 on: November 12, 2013, 09:52:12 AM »
You're obviously getting water through the heater or you wouldn't see the lines twitch.  That tells me either the faucet rotator stop is installed too aggressively, the hot and cold water lines are reverses, or the water heater isn't getting the water hot enough.  Easiest thing to check first is to see if you get hot water on what you would think was the cold setting.  Second is to check and see if the water heater thermostat isn't set in some kind of minimum or standby mode.  Third is to readjust the rotator stop to full On.

For rotator stop instruction see item seven...  http://chicagofaucets.com/InstallationInstructions/T247.pdf

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Harold Tuttle

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Re: Troubleshooting showers
« Reply #8 on: November 12, 2013, 12:14:24 PM »
verify that the output pipe is actually very warm to touch
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Balog

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Re: Troubleshooting showers
« Reply #9 on: November 12, 2013, 12:55:50 PM »
verify that the output pipe is actually very warm to touch

Yep. If the elements are dead it could still be circing water just not heating it.
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brimic

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Re: Troubleshooting showers
« Reply #10 on: November 12, 2013, 01:04:04 PM »
Not sure if this will help or not...
We have a shower in our cabin in MI where the water comes from the well.
The well water has a large amount of iron in it and some particulates.
For some reason, some oriface in the mixer valve gets clogged with scale/sediment occassionally and we lose hot water to the shower, yet the cold water still comes out.
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fifth_column

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Re: Troubleshooting showers
« Reply #11 on: November 12, 2013, 01:39:28 PM »
Have you tried det cord?


(I can't believe nobody's suggested it already . . .)


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never_retreat

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Re: Troubleshooting showers
« Reply #12 on: November 12, 2013, 04:27:26 PM »
The bigger question, who would pay 570 bucks for a faucet that ugly?
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Scout26

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Re: Troubleshooting showers
« Reply #13 on: November 12, 2013, 07:17:48 PM »
verify that the output pipe is actually very warm to touch
Start here.

Then check on the water heater that it's not set on something like "Vacation" or "Off".  ;)  If you can adjust the WH temp setting move it more toward the red end of the scale.

If that doesn't work, then nuke the site from orbit or go with disassembly of the faucet.  On that link you posted, if you scroll down they have the destructions.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2013, 07:23:00 PM by scout26 »
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Troubleshooting showers
« Reply #14 on: November 12, 2013, 10:20:12 PM »
If you have trouble shooting showers, then you need more marksmanship coaching than can be delivered online.
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Firethorn

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Re: Troubleshooting showers
« Reply #15 on: November 13, 2013, 01:43:46 AM »
some units can have the innards put in backwards.  this will result in the cold being the hot and vice versa.  since they still sense for warm temps they keep the "cold" side (now the hot water) shut down.  or it could be they plumbed the cold to the hot side and switching the innards may fix it.  you should be able to do that if you have access to the stops (shutoff valves).  some controls have the stops built-in and can be accessed when the faceplate is removed, they typically look like large flathead screws.   what brand are they?

Chicago faucet, I linked to the unit they sell that looks exactly like what we have.  Shutting off the water would be 'Iffy'.

You're obviously getting water through the heater or you wouldn't see the lines twitch.

1.  Rotating through the whole motion of the faucet gets me what is, to my perception, a constant temperature of water that's more or less what amounts to 'cold' here.  It's a whole lot warmer than back home where 'cold' is approximately 33F, but it's still a touch cooler than I'd like, which is why a small 1500W heater is more than enough 'makeup'.
2.  All heaters are adjusted to full hot; haven't had the chance to check to see if they're actually producing it; the possibility of blown elements is still possible.
3.  Already yanked the handle to one and tried both ways.

One thing that didn't occur to me until now is that all units might not be sharing the same problems.   =|

Have you tried det cord?

EOD didn't let me have any...  Still trying to get some C4 out of them.

The bigger question, who would pay 570 bucks for a faucet that ugly?

Uncle Sam.    :lol:

If you have trouble shooting showers, then you need more marksmanship coaching than can be delivered online.

No trouble shooting showers, though I get in trouble for shooting them.   =D

More seriously, I'm more hampered by a lack of tools and time and was hoping for an 'easy' fix.  Back home I also don't have to worry about destroying stuff.

Thanks everyone!
« Last Edit: November 14, 2013, 02:42:52 AM by Firethorn »

geronimotwo

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Re: Troubleshooting showers
« Reply #16 on: November 13, 2013, 11:24:22 AM »
linky no worky  now it's fine, hmpf.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2013, 08:42:53 AM by geronimotwo »
make the world idiot proof.....and you will have a world full of idiots. -g2

Harold Tuttle

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Re: Troubleshooting showers
« Reply #17 on: November 13, 2013, 11:46:42 AM »
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/greg-mitchell/toll-rises--at-least-18-u_b_124863.html


According to the Army Criminal Investigation Division, Staff Sergeant Maseth died when the electricity in the shower facility short-circuited because an electric water pump on the rooftop was not properly grounded. An initial investigation by the DOD's Criminal Investigative Division office found that the Defense Contract Management Agency (DCMA) was aware of the electrical safety hazard posed by this shower facility prior to the death of Staff Sgt. Maseth.
"The true mad scientist does not make public appearances! He does not wear the "Hello, my name is.." badge!
He strikes from below like a viper or on high like a penny dropped from the tallest building around!
He only has one purpose--Do bad things to good people! Mit science! What good is science if no one gets hurt?!"

Firethorn

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geronimotwo

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Re: Troubleshooting showers
« Reply #19 on: November 14, 2013, 08:41:46 AM »
http://www.chicagofaucets.com/InstallationInstructions/T247.pdf

here's a copy of the installation instructions.   they make no mention of reversing the temp valve body for improper plumbing of the hot-cold sides, so if that is the case you are out of luck.  they do specify that the pipes be flushed prior to assembly, leading me to believe that they are prone to sediment clogging.  if they have the stops built in, as shown in this drawing http://www.chicagofaucet.com/RepairDrawings/pdf/RP2500-VOCCP.pdf , you may be able to shut them off to remove and clean the cartridge.  for that matter, check and make sure the stops are fully open whether they are built-in or not.
make the world idiot proof.....and you will have a world full of idiots. -g2

Firethorn

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Re: Troubleshooting showers
« Reply #20 on: November 29, 2013, 11:35:25 PM »
Welp, update for you guys...

Turns out the water heaters weren't even wired to the breaker, but they're redoing the showers, again.  However, this time Red Horse is here doing the work.

Right now there's a bit of a race - contracted locals that have been putting up a building for the last year or so up against the military team, who are putting up an even bigger building, started last week.  We're confident that the odds are really against the contractors...

Scout26

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Re: Troubleshooting showers
« Reply #21 on: November 30, 2013, 02:36:20 PM »
Welp, update for you guys...

Turns out the water heaters weren't even wired to the breaker, but they're redoing the showers, again.  However, this time Red Horse is here doing the work.

Right now there's a bit of a race - contracted locals that have been putting up a building for the last year or so up against the military team, who are putting up an even bigger building, started last week.  We're confident that the odds are really against the contractors...

In other words, they weren't even plugged in??  ;/ :O :facepalm: :rofl: :rofl:

Well at least you wouldn't have been electrocuted.   Can you tell us where you are?  And aren't we pulling out of pretty much everywhere?  So why are building stuff?
Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.


Bring me my Broadsword and a clear understanding.
Get up to the roundhouse on the cliff-top standing.
Take women and children and bed them down.
Bless with a hard heart those that stand with me.
Bless the women and children who firm our hands.
Put our backs to the north wind.
Hold fast by the river.
Sweet memories to drive us on,
for the motherland.