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Author Topic: Above your paygrade.  (Read 1594 times)

Perd Hapley

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Above your paygrade.
« on: March 18, 2014, 09:58:01 PM »
This is something I think about every time someone suggests that nonsense about shooting someone in the leg or arm, just to wound them. I might have picked up this particular line of thought here, or somewhere else, or maybe I'm capable of original thought.

I want to say to them, "You don't get to play God. You don't decide if they live or die. You have the right to inflict the damage necessary to protect you and yours. How badly they are hurt, or whether or not they recover from it, is above your pay grade."

Is that a good way of putting it?


Just thought of another way. You don't shoot to wound or to kill, because you don't have a right to wound anybody or kill anybody. You have a right to stop someone who's trying to kill or seriously injure you or yours.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2014, 10:07:42 PM by fistful »
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vaskidmark

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Re: Above your paygrade.
« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2014, 10:13:37 PM »
I prefer to take a different tack.

My objective is to stop the threat (of imminent death or serious bodily injury) that they initiated against me.  If doing so results in their death then that is their responsibility, as I never asked to be threatened with imminent death or serious bodily injury.

As I see it, the issue is to clarify that your objective is only stop stop the threat.

stay safe.
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If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of a constitutional privilege.

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Perd Hapley

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Re: Above your paygrade.
« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2014, 10:16:45 PM »
I think the tack is really the same, but one way of expressing it may be clearer than the other two. Not sure which is which. Probably not my first one.
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AJ Dual

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Re: Above your paygrade.
« Reply #3 on: March 18, 2014, 10:20:02 PM »
Yep, shoot to stop, period.

That means COM. Which is all that 99% of us can reliably hit, if at all.

For the people who still think that's "shooting to kill", I point out I'm not going to aim for the head (intentionally, anyway) either, because it's smaller and I might miss just like arms and legs, or "just shoot the gun/knife out of his hand" TV nonsense.

That, combined with the difficulty of merely keeping handgun rounds on a perfectly still paper plate at ten yards,  if they get a range trip out of me, and the lightbulb goes on.

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Scout26

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Re: Above your paygrade.
« Reply #4 on: March 18, 2014, 11:04:05 PM »
Take them out to a range, draw a picture of an arm (outkine of yours will do) and give them 6 or 8 shots at it.


Then ask how they would expect to hit it moving.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Above your paygrade.
« Reply #5 on: March 18, 2014, 11:44:30 PM »
Quote from: scout26 on March 18, 2014, 11:04:05 PM
Take them out to a range, draw a picture of an arm (outkine of yours will do) and give them 6 or 8 shots at it.


Then ask how they would expect to hit it moving.


I had in mind the situations where you have maybe 3 seconds before the conversation moves on their next ill-founded opinion.
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Tallpine

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Re: Above your paygrade.
« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2014, 04:14:56 PM »
Shooting someone is always deadly force.

You can bleed out and die from a leg wound.
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vaskidmark

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Re: Above your paygrade.
« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2014, 07:59:15 PM »
Quote from: Tallpine on March 19, 2014, 04:14:56 PM
Shooting someone is always deadly force.

You can bleed out and die from a leg wound.

But I didn't mean for him to die.  I just wanted to stop the threat.

Yes, it's semantics.  Semantics that might be the difference between a vacation at taxpayer expense and returning home merely broke in spirit and finances.

stay safe.
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If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of a constitutional privilege.

Hey you kids!! Get off my lawn!!!

They keep making this eternal vigilance thing harder and harder.  Protecting the 2nd amendment is like playing PACMAN - there's no pause button so you can go to the bathroom.

grampster

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Re: Above your paygrade.
« Reply #8 on: March 19, 2014, 08:08:26 PM »
"If I am armed and find myself in imminent danger of physical harm or death, I will use the necessary force to stop the threat.  We do not train to wound or kill, only to stop the threat."
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Above your paygrade.
« Reply #9 on: March 20, 2014, 12:25:51 AM »
Quote from: vaskidmark on March 19, 2014, 07:59:15 PM
But I didn't mean for him to die.  I just wanted to stop the threat.

Yes, it's semantics.  Semantics that might be the difference between a vacation at taxpayer expense and returning home merely broke in spirit and finances.


I don't think it's semantics.
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vaskidmark

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Re: Above your paygrade.
« Reply #10 on: March 20, 2014, 06:36:34 AM »
Quote from: fistful on March 20, 2014, 12:25:51 AM

I don't think it's semantics.

Then what is it?

stay safe.
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If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of a constitutional privilege.

Hey you kids!! Get off my lawn!!!

They keep making this eternal vigilance thing harder and harder.  Protecting the 2nd amendment is like playing PACMAN - there's no pause button so you can go to the bathroom.

Perd Hapley

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Re: Above your paygrade.
« Reply #11 on: March 20, 2014, 07:04:36 AM »
Attitude. Motive. Mindset.
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Monkeyleg

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Re: Above your paygrade.
« Reply #12 on: March 20, 2014, 11:00:57 AM »
I don't know that any thought can be conveyed in three seconds. I've had someone ask about shooting in the arm or leg before. I just say that a shooting is a stressful situation, and even hitting the center of the chest isn't always guaranteed, but it's the largest target. Death isn't intended, but it can be a byproduct of the perp's actions.

I think that would actually take less than 3 seconds to say. ;)
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Scout26

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Re: Above your paygrade.
« Reply #13 on: March 20, 2014, 01:13:51 PM »
The only thing above my paygrade is where to invade the Asian mainland.  ;)
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Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.


Bring me my Broadsword and a clear understanding.
Get up to the roundhouse on the cliff-top standing.
Take women and children and bed them down.
Bless with a hard heart those that stand with me.
Bless the women and children who firm our hands.
Put our backs to the north wind.
Hold fast by the river.
Sweet memories to drive us on,
for the motherland.

AJ Dual

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Re: Above your paygrade.
« Reply #14 on: March 20, 2014, 01:16:29 PM »
Quote from: scout26 on March 20, 2014, 01:13:51 PM
The only thing above my paygrade is where to invade the Asian mainland.  ;)

The correct answer is: "Wherever you want, as long as you've waited three to five weeks for the Iodine 131 to go through a few half-lives first. And distribute KI pills to all your men."
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vaskidmark

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Re: Above your paygrade.
« Reply #15 on: March 20, 2014, 04:49:11 PM »
Quote from: scout26 on March 20, 2014, 01:13:51 PM
The only thing above my paygrade is where to invade the Asian mainland.  ;)

Just backtrack the trail of those Mongolian ponies.  Wear waders if that involves the Bering Strait.

stay safe.
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If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of a constitutional privilege.

Hey you kids!! Get off my lawn!!!

They keep making this eternal vigilance thing harder and harder.  Protecting the 2nd amendment is like playing PACMAN - there's no pause button so you can go to the bathroom.
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