A 'Consumers Guide' to addiction treatment

[MillCreek]

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/how-fix-rehab-expert-who-lost-son-addiction-has-plan-n67946

This is interesting.  I have no personal or professional training or experience in addiction matters, and I was curious to see that the AA approach is not necessarily the best.  I wish the article had gone into more detail as to these programs that assist physicians and pilots with addiction so I could learn how those work.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

guy not so much expert    his degrees not withstanding
i do feel for him though
he reminds me of the couple that pitch their behavior modification for kids program. part of their pitch is even though they were both kiddie shrinks their kid was outa control so they developed a program that can fix every kid. if they were that smart their kid would never gone off the rails


he is right about rehab programs though.  its a money maker and some of them are resorts.  i spent 28 k for 28 days in a plain jane facility.  some folks think the tennis courts massages and pools are needed to entice their loved one to go.  that attitude from the enablers addicts seek to surround themselves with is a big part of the problem.  i like the salvation army programs. no frill
this poor man was an expert when his kids ran amuck and couldn't save em then . i am doubtful he found the grail since and 5 years in an addiction study is comparable to global warming science

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

heres one  theres a longer study i can't seem to find
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23327504

hunt it down through this
http://www.recoverystories.info/75-years-in-the-making-harvard-just-released-its-epic-study-on-what-men-need-to-live-a-happy-life/

[vaskidmark]

Realizing that anecdote =/= data, based on both running (clinically and administratively) treatment programs for incarcerated persons I have found only one "system" that works - and then only when the participants buy into it.  And stay with it (and the "out-patient" afterwards component) for at least 3 years.  That is the therapeutic community (TC) adaptation from St. Elizabeth's Hospital, DC forensic psychiatry ward created by Stanton & Samenow.  As of when I retired about 10 years ago there were maybe 4 out of the 50 states that were running an effectual program (no, Va was not one of them), and there were maybe 6 operating on the street.

"Rehab" is a fallacy on two points: mostly it is drying out/detoxing; and for the most part the participants were never "hab-ed" in the first place so there is no way they can be "re-hab-ed".  One of the reasons TCs have so much trouble getting started and then maintained (especially as .gov-operated programs) is because they are quite openly brain-washing and mind-control programs with just about every psy-op technique except corporal punishment.  If c&sd's experience with The Sally A's program is the one I know, it also gets a thumbs-up from me because it "habs" instead of trying to "re-hab the un-hab-ed".

The program that I found to have the best chance of helping significan others deal with the "addict" has consistenyly been Parents/Families Anonymous - if you can weed out the hard-core enablers among both the participants and the sponsors/sponsoring organizations.

But what are we - society as a whole - going to do with the 25 Million+ who are designated as "The Enemy" in The War On Some Drugs when "our" side really has no plan or desire to put tjem through re-education camps and turn them into loyal 'Muricans?

stay safe.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

Yea. I started this *expletive deleted*it in 76 its I real goat roping. And once the lawyers started making rehab sop for pretrial dui defense it got worse.  The vast majority of folks who walk in are looking to bandage some kinda life jackpot as oppised to really change. They show get a tune up and leave.  No follow through

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[roo_ster]

"Rehab" is a fallacy on two points: mostly it is drying out/detoxing; and for the most part the participants were never "hab-ed" in the first place so there is no way they can be "re-hab-ed"....If c&sd's experience with The Sally A's program is the one I know, it also gets a thumbs-up from me because it "habs" instead of trying to "re-hab the un-hab-ed"...

Yeah, this always puzzled me.  "re-hab" might work for a son of the middle/upper class who fell off the straight & narrow.  Not so much for the feral sort.

But what are we - society as a whole - going to do with the 25 Million+ who are designated as "The Enemy" in The War On Some Drugs when "our" side really has no plan or desire to put tjem through re-education camps and turn them into loyal 'Muricans?

I get further & further inclined toward Soylent Green or "Let them figure it out for themselves without our money.".  Not because they use drugs, but because they never "hab-ed" in the first place.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

Yeah, this always puzzled me.  "re-hab" might work for a son of the middle/upper class who fell off the straight & narrow.  Not so much for the feral sort.
I get further & further inclined toward Soylent Green or "Let them figure it out for themselves without our money.".  Not because they use drugs, but because they never "hab-ed" in the first place.

oddly i've observed middle class kids with all the advantages fail every bit as often as the feral sorts though i look at rehab as the pre rinse at the car wash.  the guy with the hose who knocks some big stuff and hits some areas the machine won't.  the real change happens after you walk out door. i've seenn guys take cabs from rehab to abc store and then home.  also saw a guy steal a car to get to rehab rack up 20 years clean   so far.

i have in my circle seen one common element with the successful more than any other and its instrumental in disturbing the professionals and experts
that element is some form of spirituality.   this seems to really ruffle the feathers of some atheists and even some who claim agnosticism .
i've seen folks lose it over that issue

for many folks that spirituality manifests as a return to a religion or embracing a new one. this is also for some reason disturbing to some people. and in particular some shrinks and pill pushers

[roo_ster]

oddly i've observed middle class kids with all the advantages fail every bit as often as the feral sorts though i look at rehab as the pre rinse at the car wash.  the guy with the hose who knocks some big stuff and hits some areas the machine won't.  the real change happens after you walk out door. i've seenn guys take cabs from rehab to abc store and then home.  also saw a guy steal a car to get to rehab rack up 20 years clean   so far.

i have in my circle seen one common element with the successful more than any other and its instrumental in disturbing the professionals and experts
that element is some form of spirituality.   this seems to really ruffle the feathers of some atheists and even some who claim agnosticism .
i've seen folks lose it over that issue

for many folks that spirituality manifests as a return to a religion or embracing a new one. this is also for some reason disturbing to some people. and in particular some shrinks and pill pushers

I've no doubt the kids of the MC & UMC can go feral.  But, supposedly they were exposed to civilized behavior and "hab-ed" at one point.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

I've no doubt the kids of the MC & UMC can go feral.  But, supposedly they were exposed to civilized behavior and "hab-ed" at one point.

i wish
some of them have never been held accountable    might scar them for life   the look of horror they get when it happens tells the tale.  i get a lot of those kinda kids sent to me.  i think its because folks know my primary concern is not hurting their feelings and nurturing their feelings of importance.when they start crying i feel my work is done.
some of them may have been "hab-ed" once but they are so deep into their roleplaying gangsta that they are immersed in it  true method acting.
i see the end results of some truly awful parenting. much coming from adults who seem better than that. competent high performers  military  civilains with high clearance jobs

on the real odd flip side the 2 best behaved kids i ever knew were both the spawn of crack using moms.  one mom coulda played sasquatch with minimal make up and props the other was a simply breathtaking girl who supported her self with the worlds oldest profession.  both lil girls had the advantage of granmas that were old school country bible toting bottom smacking no nonsense ladies. life is often perverse

[BlueStarLizzard]

Like skid said, nothing will work if the participant isn't into it.

That's why I have issues with court mandated rehabs scentances. It looks great on paper, but if they don't want it, then it's a waste of time and money.

As far as scaming and what works and what doesn't... Diffrent strokes for diffrent folks. My Dad did detox at a local nuthouse and then AA.
At first he was really with the AA thing, but then he became seriously disallisioned with it and stopped going. If for some reason, he ever started drinking again, I'm betting he'd have to do a diffrent program (well, presuming he survived drinking again) because the AA wouldn't work for him.

I will say I kind of wonder about the effectiveness of the fancy resort style places, though. Seems to me to be a lot of distractions for a place where people are trying to concentrate on rewiring their brains.

[roo_ster]

i wish
some of them have never been held accountable    might scar them for life   the look of horror they get when it happens tells the tale.  i get a lot of those kinda kids sent to me.  i think its because folks know my primary concern is not hurting their feelings and nurturing their feelings of importance.when they start crying i feel my work is done.

That made me smile for two reasons.  First, because it is kinda funny.  Second because wife & I inflict parental pain on the kids (in whatever format appropriate) from time to time so someone does not have to do that to them later.  I tell the kids, "You can learn discipline at wholesale prices at home while you are young or you can pay retail for them later after you are on your own."  I don't like having to do it, but my own parental enjoyment rates lower than their moral development. 

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

Yup. I can show one sucess I like most. Mommy raised vim.  Mommy did his homework for him in highschool do he'd graduate.  Mommys brother got him a union job when he failed outa college first year. He was all about video games and getting high lived with mom till he was 28 then got married to a real sick enabler. Divorced 20 months later. Met a real nice way too young girl when he tried college again. She got pregnant.  He stopped getting high 2 years before he got married but stayed useless. He thought he'd died and gone to heaven when his shrink told him he could get disability.  I told him it was a great idea but we should take his last check and go to b walmart and get a bunch of elastic waistband pants so when he hit 350 playing video games in moms basement he'd look fresh. Made him cry.
Now that young momma? She grew up into a great mom of 2 great kids. And that useless turd? He gets up everyday works as a union heavy equipment operator.  Makes a good living. Is a better dad than anyone could imagine. Mommas finishing college. Its scary. I spent 5 years breaking my foot off in him before he quit getting high.and 3 years after till he grew up. But we both sure like watching our kids play together. And remembering when. No one had ever told him he was wrong he was too sensitive for that.

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[vaskidmark]

That made me smile for two reasons.  First, because it is kinda funny.  Second because wife & I inflict parental pain on the kids (in whatever format appropriate) from time to time so someone does not have to do that to them later.  I tell the kids, "You can learn discipline at wholesale prices at home while you are young or you can pay retail for them later after you are on your own."  I don't like having to do it, but my own parental enjoyment rates lower than their moral development. 

That there ^ is the point.  When you parent there are certain things you have to do.  Enjoying doing them has nothing to do with it.  Fail to do them and, at least in my world view, you are nothing more than an ectoplasm producer.

For some things the law says that "parents" who fail to properly raise their child(ren) become financially - and sometimes criminally - responsible for the inappropriate/destructive behavior.  And those few "parents" who find themselves staring in disbelief at a judge who has just levied reimbursement + court costs, or reimbursement + court costs + jail tme, few (in my limited observations) make the change to actual parenting because they themselves never learned how.

I'm philosophically opposed to licensing parents (with a required exam to be passed in ordeer get said license) but am in favor of holding them accountable for the end product of their spawning ritual.  I's still debating between flogging and economic penalties as the method of accountability.

stay safe.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

In the late 60's in district heights md they had trouble with punk kids hanging out on the streets. They started jailing the dads of said kids. Kids stopped hanging out.

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[vaskidmark]

Wanted to put this separately -

As for the two bugaboos of the AA model - hitting bottom and higher power --

Hitting bottom has been a relativistic term for a long time, and lots of folks say it's not necessary.  What is necessary is the desire to change.

Higher power has always been a debateable/discussable term.  I know folks who identified a pebble as their higher power and are decades into being sober for the last 5 minutes, as well as folks who put the responsibility on Jesus/Allah/Vishnu/You Name The Being and could not make it 60 seconds.

Which brings me to the "once an alcoholic/addict always an alcoholic/addict" thing.  Guy I knew growing up named George claimed he was a heroin addict.  When I met him he had been clean for 5 years.  When he died he had been clean for 35 years.  He said he was an addict because when he woke up the first thing he thought about was using - and then went moment by moment through the day not using.  Samenow's famous prescription of "fake it till you make it" works for psychopaths and for druggies.  George said he just went for 35 years faking being clean & sober.

It worked for him.  Apparently he just faked it hard enough, where some other folks do not.

stay safe.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

Yea bottom is a funny thing. Its not always tied into visible things. Prison and a number of other events that normal folks would call bottom were not a bottom for me got high less than 60 seconds from release. My bottom I had a good job just felt dead inside and it seemed like I wasn't dying outside fast enough. Considered suicide but figured if sobering up didn't make it better I could kill myself then. I had done the meetings shrinks and sober interruptus for close to 15 years by then

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