An interesting observation on cops and the need for public support

[Balog]

From a thread about the Habersham goons burning an infant with a grenade then lying about it. If I was a cop I'd be thinking long and hard about this, instead of seeing how many .mil toys I can get from the feds.

The concept you want to think about is called hysteresis -- think about a microswitch with a spring leaf. You push and push and push, and at some point the switch flips. From that point, a small reversal is insufficient to turn the switch off. A much more significant reversal has to happen.

In the context of social behavior, this sort of thing is called a preference cascade.

This is the way it is with the authority figure in any scenario. They're largely supported, largely respected, largely obeyed and supplied with voluntary compliance and assistance.

Right up to the point when they're not.

And once that public consciousness flips, once the ants turn on the grasshoppers, that's a situation that is not easy to re acquire.

[dogmush]

From a thread about the Habersham goons burning an infant with a grenade then lying about it. If I was a cop I'd be thinking long and hard about this, instead of seeing how many .mil toys I can get from the feds.

Maybe they are thinking about it, and that's why they are collecting .mil toys from the feds.   

[Balog]

Maybe they are thinking about it, and that's why they are collecting .mil toys from the feds.   

Hopefully even with the hiring discrimination against people who are too smart, most cops aren't that stupid.

[fifth_column]

Hopefully even with the hiring discrimination against people who are too smart, most cops aren't that stupid.

My personal opinion is that most of them are exactly that smart.

[dogmush]

Hopefully even with the hiring discrimination against people who are too smart, most cops aren't that stupid.

My first response was kinda tongue in cheek.

But

I know quite a few LEO's personally. Most are actually pretty bright, and know both their coworkers and targets well.  The overwhelming thought is that LAW enforcement in the US can hold down pretty much any uprising as long as they can keep control of the narrative, and make sure that average folks don't identify with the folks being beaten/hosed/shot.  You can see this in action if you look as news commentary of OWS, or the G8 protests.  Crazy Kids.  You can see it in action if you mention collateral damage of drug and/or GWOT raids to CSD.  An article was written about it by a LEO (That I can't currently find) where he SAYS the key is to make sure the news reports that the raid target is a wacko. To this day most Americans think Randy Weaver was a nazi criminal and deserved it.

They might be betting incorrectly. Or they might not have as firm a grip on spin as they have in the past, but you'd be foolish to think LEA's don't consider this very thing.

ETA: And they are currently incorporating the new data from Cliven's BLM thing.  That lesson was lost on no one.  Next time, no taking of cows.  Quick raid, whole family grabbed, and new release about whatever evil crime you can find.

[SADShooter]

dogmush, that analysis makes sense, except it seems to ignore the potential impact of social media. If an incident arises/escalates, and people start seeing firsthand reports from those they know and trust which contradict the MSM narrative, that approach might not work. I think we've sen examples in the popular uprisings in the Middle East, etc. of mobilization by social media. Fewer and fewer people rely on traditional news outlets, so an information blockade would be needed. I'm sure that's possible, but it creates other problems, such as hordes of Facebook and Twitter deprived zombies roaming the streets.

[fifth_column]

dogmush, that analysis makes sense, except it seems to ignore the potential impact of social media. If an incident arises/escalates, and people start seeing firsthand reports from those they know and trust which contradict the MSM narrative, that approach might not work. I think we've sen examples in the popular uprisings in the Middle East, etc. of mobilization by social media. Fewer and fewer people rely on traditional news outlets, so an information blockade would be needed. I'm sure that's possible, but it creates other problems, such as hordes of Facebook and Twitter deprived zombies roaming the streets.

And the powers-that-be during those uprisings made every effort to lock down the internet and social media sites.  There are efforts occurring today to allow the feds to do the same thing in the US. 

[KD5NRH]

Not exactly a new idea:

"To recognise always that the power of the police to fulfil their functions and duties is dependent on public approval of their existence, actions and behaviour and on their ability to secure and maintain public respect."  -- Peel's 2nd Principle of Policing, 1829.

[RevDisk]

I know quite a few LEO's personally. Most are actually pretty bright, and know both their coworkers and targets well.  The overwhelming thought is that LAW enforcement in the US can hold down pretty much any uprising as long as they can keep control of the narrative, and make sure that average folks don't identify with the folks being beaten/hosed/shot.  You can see this in action if you look as news commentary of OWS, or the G8 protests.  Crazy Kids.  You can see it in action if you mention collateral damage of drug and/or GWOT raids to CSD.  An article was written about it by a LEO (That I can't currently find) where he SAYS the key is to make sure the news reports that the raid target is a wacko. To this day most Americans think Randy Weaver was a nazi criminal and deserved it.

They might be betting incorrectly. Or they might not have as firm a grip on spin as they have in the past, but you'd be foolish to think LEA's don't consider this very thing.

ETA: And they are currently incorporating the new data from Cliven's BLM thing.  That lesson was lost on no one.  Next time, no taking of cows.  Quick raid, whole family grabbed, and new release about whatever evil crime you can find.

Dismissing dissents as crazy, bad or "not one of us" is not a new tactic. Probably was popular during the Roman or Greek empires.

It's honestly impressive folks respond to the hippy protests. Cops show up in the thousands with armored vehicles, (hopefully) less lethal weapons and mass detention. Folks barely blink. On the other hand, RKBA rallies tend to get a couple. Usually for traffic control. Last one I attended had extra officers emergency dispatched... to keep people from stepping on azaleas. No kidding, I asked him. "Hey, I see more officers than usual, what's up? - People have been walking on the flower beds because the main stairs are blocked. We just landscaped, so we don't want it messed up."

If the hippies wanted not to get beaten up, they'd get a bunch of their hippy buddies, buy AR15s, take a couple classes, and open carry on their hippy protests. Combine that with a bit of personal hygiene and some common sense, guaranteed that they won't get night sticked, pepper sprayed and mass ziptied. Actually engage in oh, organized lobbying, voting campaigns and PR campaigns, maybe they'd get something done.


Most cops are normal people. Mostly 'good', but obviously self-interested. They're not going to go out of their way to be difficult, especially when folks are well organized, reasonably polite and whatnot. They will however do as they're told, because they often have kids and a mortgage. That tends to inhibit folks' moral compasses, especially if they can rationalization it.

[Balog]

At least in Seattle, the WTO protests caused immense property damage.

[Bigjake]

At least in Seattle, the WTO protests caused immense property damage.

Plays into the narrative. 

Hard to feel sympathy for a bunch of barbarians getting the old hickory shampoo.

[Balog]

What does a world where the average person hates and distrusts cops look like? One where a thief can cut a cop's throat on video, and get acquitted in less than two hours. http://www.policeone.com/Officer-Safety/articles/7251371-Vt-woman-who-cut-officer-s-throat-acquitted-of-charges/

[tokugawa]

 Just anecdotal impressions- I know a lot of folks who, 20 years ago would have been 100% behind the police in virtually any scenario, hard core law and order types, who now have no trust in them.  It is a slow process, but a lot of good faith has been flushed away-
  I heard the remark, after the homeless camper was shot murdered by the Albuquerque police, that the cops should have to be shot at first , before they could discharge a weapon. This from as conservative a guy as you could imagine. 
 People are getting sick of the swat raids and the tendency for police to use overwhelming force in minor matters.

 The telling thing is not any individual abuse, but the responses in the comments when something is reported- almost all are vehemently against the police. Preference cascade in action? I don't know, this is all hearsay.

 My personal experience with our local sheriffs dept has always been respectful and courteous- we seem to have a very good dept.

[Tallpine]

Just anecdotal impressions- I know a lot of folks who, 20 years ago would have been 100% behind the police in virtually any scenario, hard core law and order types, who now have no trust in them. ....

Me