Author Topic: Kind of a new low in clergy behaving badly  (Read 2696 times)

MillCreek

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Kind of a new low in clergy behaving badly
« on: October 09, 2014, 03:58:26 PM »
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MillCreek
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Quote from: Angel Eyes on August 09, 2018, 01:56:15 AM
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KD5NRH

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Re: Kind of a new low in clergy behaving badly
« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2014, 04:04:08 PM »
I am pretty confident in stating that this is making Jesus cry.

And/or He's getting ready to throw furniture around Daddy's house again.  Would not want to be the one taking notes at this guy's Judgment.

vaskidmark

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Re: Kind of a new low in clergy behaving badly
« Reply #2 on: October 09, 2014, 06:40:50 PM »
Quote
"Transmitting a Sexually Transmitted Disease" is a Class C Misdemeanor, according to the Montgomery Police Department. At this time, no charges have been filed against McFarland.

We've had a few cases where someone was initially charged with the misdemeanor of "merely" transmitting a sexually transmitted disease, or the enhanced felony version of doing so when knowing they had the disease, or the felony-er charge of intentionally transmitting a sexually transmitted disease.  Also had IIRC two of the latter bumped up years later to Murder 1 when the victim died.

Does the state pick up the tab for periodic testing?  Could the church be found liable for testing, counseling, and treatment?

And yes, that is one Come To Jesus Meeting that cries out for being posted to YouTube.

stay safe.
If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of a constitutional privilege.

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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Kind of a new low in clergy behaving badly
« Reply #3 on: October 09, 2014, 06:45:50 PM »
Preachers carry malpractice insurance


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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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KD5NRH

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Re: Kind of a new low in clergy behaving badly
« Reply #4 on: October 09, 2014, 07:01:02 PM »
We've had a few cases where someone was initially charged with the misdemeanor of "merely" transmitting a sexually transmitted disease, or the enhanced felony version of doing so when knowing they had the disease, or the felony-er charge of intentionally transmitting a sexually transmitted disease.

What's the minimum culpable mental state for the misdemeanor charge?  I could see most high-risk behavior being classed as at least criminally negligent, but if someone unknowingly got it through a lower-risk act like a blood transfusion that wasn't properly screened, or a poorly sterilized instrument at the doctor's office...or even didn't happen to get tested between marriages and passed something from the unfaithful previous spouse to their new spouse unknowingly, I just can't see that charge sticking.

For the felonies, is informed consent an affirmative defense?  Are reasonable precautions combined with informed consent a defense?  I could see a couple eventually saying "to hell with it; it hasn't killed you yet, so let's consummate this marriage right anyway," or taking reasonable precautions and having a condom break.  I could also see an older couple deciding they won't miss anything important enough to give up sex for.

Perd Hapley

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Re: Kind of a new low in clergy behaving badly
« Reply #5 on: October 09, 2014, 10:21:00 PM »
A new low? Were children molested?
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MillCreek

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Re: Kind of a new low in clergy behaving badly
« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2014, 10:56:14 PM »
Preachers carry malpractice insurance


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Much like professional liability insurance for physicians and lawyers, sexual contact with a patient/client/congregation member is specifically excluded from coverage.  If there is an award or verdict, the insurance company pays no money.  In some cases, if you deny the contact occurred, the insurance company will provide a legal defense.
_____________
Regards,
MillCreek
Snohomish County, WA  USA


Quote from: Angel Eyes on August 09, 2018, 01:56:15 AM
You are one lousy risk manager.

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Kind of a new low in clergy behaving badly
« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2014, 11:41:07 PM »
I did not know that . Apparently they do sell insurance to protect the churches themselves though. And there is some discussion as to how that covers the preacher
http://scholarship.richmond.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1005&context=law-faculty-publications
http://www.kncsb.org/legal/Other_Liability_Coverage.pdf



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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

MillCreek

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Re: Kind of a new low in clergy behaving badly
« Reply #8 on: October 10, 2014, 12:03:58 AM »
^^^ You can still get insurance to cover the corporation (church) for the vicarious liability for the acts of the employee committing the abuse; but the employee is still not covered.  I have that sort of insurance for my healthcare facilities.  As a result, most sexual abuse or contact lawsuits these days sue the employer on the basis of negligent hiring, supervision or retention, to bring it under the coverage for vicarious liability.

And the law review article is correct in that the old policies were written with the idea of intent; and coverage was found under those policies under the argument of there was no intent to harm by committing sexual abuse, and any harm was an accident and therefore there should be coverage.  This is how there is insurance coverage for the lawsuits alleging abuse occurring many years ago.  The insurance policies in effect then could be interpreted to provide coverage.

The insurance companies now write the coverage with very specific exclusions that provide that any sexual abuse or contact is not covered, regardless of intent, and any abuse or contact is an intentional act and not an accident.  You will likely see a similar exclusion in your homeowner's or umbrella liability policies.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2014, 12:08:05 AM by MillCreek »
_____________
Regards,
MillCreek
Snohomish County, WA  USA


Quote from: Angel Eyes on August 09, 2018, 01:56:15 AM
You are one lousy risk manager.

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Kind of a new low in clergy behaving badly
« Reply #9 on: October 10, 2014, 12:31:19 AM »
When I worked at the seminary I was shocked to hear about the malpractice


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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

MillCreek

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Re: Kind of a new low in clergy behaving badly
« Reply #10 on: October 10, 2014, 12:38:05 AM »
Nowadays, I think the most common allegation of clergy malpractice is negligent counseling resulting in either suicide, breakup of a marriage, or other psychiatric problems. 
_____________
Regards,
MillCreek
Snohomish County, WA  USA


Quote from: Angel Eyes on August 09, 2018, 01:56:15 AM
You are one lousy risk manager.

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Kind of a new low in clergy behaving badly
« Reply #11 on: October 10, 2014, 12:38:59 AM »
That's how it was related to me too


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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

vaskidmark

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Re: Kind of a new low in clergy behaving badly
« Reply #12 on: October 10, 2014, 01:37:46 AM »
What's the minimum culpable mental state for the misdemeanor charge?  I could see most high-risk behavior being classed as at least criminally negligent, but if someone unknowingly got it through a lower-risk act like a blood transfusion that wasn't properly screened, or a poorly sterilized instrument at the doctor's office...or even didn't happen to get tested between marriages and passed something from the unfaithful previous spouse to their new spouse unknowingly, I just can't see that charge sticking.

For the felonies, is informed consent an affirmative defense?  Are reasonable precautions combined with informed consent a defense?  I could see a couple eventually saying "to hell with it; it hasn't killed you yet, so let's consummate this marriage right anyway," or taking reasonable precautions and having a condom break.  I could also see an older couple deciding they won't miss anything important enough to give up sex for.

Misdemeanor is a hold-over from the "good old days" of social hygiene health laws - malum prohibitum and it sucks to be you.  Charge is rarely levied against upstanding folks who got it from a bad blood transfusion or a toilet seat.  Be skeezy and you could see an extra $100 being yanked out of your wallet.

There is no possible informed consent to receive a sexually transmitted disease, per Va law.  As mentioned, the enhanced-penalty charge gets into mens rea.  The law came about after some joker with AIDS went about trying to infect every hooker in the Tri-Cities (Richmond. Petersburg, Colonial Heights) area.  He missed a goodly number but got enough to create a decent scare.

stay safe.
If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of a constitutional privilege.

Hey you kids!! Get off my lawn!!!

They keep making this eternal vigilance thing harder and harder.  Protecting the 2nd amendment is like playing PACMAN - there's no pause button so you can go to the bathroom.

MicroBalrog

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Re: Kind of a new low in clergy behaving badly
« Reply #13 on: October 12, 2014, 12:52:56 AM »
Sadly this is not really a new low.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Kind of a new low in clergy behaving badly
« Reply #14 on: October 12, 2014, 02:18:57 AM »
Sadly this is not really a new low.


True.
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