Author Topic: Flying Through Anti-Matter  (Read 950 times)

Ben

  • Administrator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 46,312
  • I'm an Extremist!
Flying Through Anti-Matter
« on: May 13, 2015, 05:51:18 PM »
And not blowing up the planet. Winning!  :laugh:

Nothing so dramatic, but very interesting theory. They plan on flying an A-10 with a particle detector for further experimentation.

http://www.nature.com/news/rogue-antimatter-found-in-thunderclouds-1.17526
"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."

vaskidmark

  • National Anthem Snob
  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 12,799
  • WTF?
Re: Flying Through Anti-Matter
« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2015, 07:00:52 PM »
Quote
the pilots turned towards what looked, from its radar profile, to be the Georgia coast. “Instead, it was a line of thunderstorms

 :facepalm:

stay safe.
If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of a constitutional privilege.

Hey you kids!! Get off my lawn!!!

They keep making this eternal vigilance thing harder and harder.  Protecting the 2nd amendment is like playing PACMAN - there's no pause button so you can go to the bathroom.

Hawkmoon

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 27,361
Re: Flying Through Anti-Matter
« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2015, 07:33:40 PM »
I can't help thinking that flying into the middle of violent thunderstorms is a good use for unmanned drone aircraft.
- - - - - - - - - - - - -
100% Politically Incorrect by Design

230RN

  • saw it coming.
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 18,965
  • ...shall not be allowed.
Re: Flying Through Anti-Matter
« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2015, 08:09:32 PM »
Interesting.  They'll make a bomb out of it yet.  100% transformation of mass into energy.  What fun!

Anybody ever read "Seetee Shock?"

ETA:  "Seetee" stands for "Contra-Terrene" matter, the "Shock" refers to the cumulative radioactive exposure involved in working with it.

http://www.amazon.com/Seetee-Shock-Jack-Williamson/dp/1557851158

I read it in the original paperback decades ago.  The "science fiction" engineering involved in working with the antimatter was amazing.  It was found, according to the fiction, in large chunks in the asteroid belt.

When a suspected chunk of antimatter was located by the space miner, it was "assayed" by shooting a small chunk of matter at it and observing if it flashed when it hit the "ore."  If not, on to the next chunk of asteroid.

Missiles were made with antimatter steel magnetized in one direction, enclosed in a vacuum, within a steel shell also magnetized the same way.  Thus the repulsion between the antimatter and the matter kept them apart until the shell hit something, where interia would drive the antimatter into the shell casing, causing a huge (100% conversion) explosion.

The magnetic handling of the raw material, ultimately used for power generation, was "science-fictionally plausible" as well.

I reckon anything as powerful (trillions(?) of horsepower) as a lightning bolt might well generate subatomic effects.

I once built a spark-gap photographic flash unit (not a xenon flash, which is too slow for what I wanted to do) and I estimated the 1/2" spark from large TV set doorknob capacitors generated a surprisingly very large number (which I forget) for the horsepower, figuring the short duration of the spark.

Terry, 230RN
« Last Edit: May 14, 2015, 05:28:21 PM by 230RN »
WHATEVER YOUR DEFINITION OF "INFRINGE " IS, YOU SHOULDN'T BE DOING IT.

AJ Dual

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 16,162
  • Shoe Ballistics Inc.
Re: Flying Through Anti-Matter
« Reply #4 on: May 14, 2015, 10:31:39 AM »
Sadly, if there were any macro-chunks of anti-matter floating in the Solar System or anywhere else like in SeeTee Ship and SeeTee Shock, they'd be insanely radioactive with gamma-rays and other radiation, and stick out like sore thumbs, probably a distances of light years. Even just a few tons of anti-matter distributed as anti-asteroids in the belt would render Earth uninhabitable.

Even in the "vacuum" of space, collisions with dust, cosmic rays, solar/stellar wind, interstellar hydrogen, all comprised of positive/normal matter would be continuous.

The other problem with anti-matter weapons, anti-matter bombs etc. is that if you try to just ram two chunks together, it's not a cumulative effect like critical masses and fission. They'll only annihilate along the contact edge, and the massive gamma ray blast will vaporize and propel the rest of the matter/anti-matter away from each other resulting in way less than 100% conversion efficiency.  I suppose you could accelerate the pieces to near light-speed to get more of the matter and anti-matter to collide, but if you can accelerate any macro-scale object to near light speed, that's a damn nifty weapon in of itself, so no need to muck about with antimatter in the first place.

Something like a matter/anti-matter starship drive would probably work better, colliding a beam of each so they annihilate, producing a huge gamma ray flare, and using that as your weapon.

So for right now, anti-matter has to be made just a few particles at a time and collecting "slow" low-energy/low-velocity anti-hydrogen from the production and combination of anti-protons and positrons, I think the record so far is that they've managed to hang onto a few dozen anti-hydrogen atoms in a magnetic Penning trap for about 15 minutes.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2015, 10:56:47 AM by AJ Dual »
I promise not to duck.

MechAg94

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 33,886
Re: Flying Through Anti-Matter
« Reply #5 on: May 14, 2015, 02:29:16 PM »
Wouldn't the solar wind and just about any particle in space react with anti-matter? 
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

AJ Dual

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 16,162
  • Shoe Ballistics Inc.
Re: Flying Through Anti-Matter
« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2015, 04:45:31 PM »
Even in the "vacuum" of space, collisions with dust, cosmic rays, solar/stellar wind, interstellar hydrogen, all comprised of positive/normal matter would be continuous.

Someone skimmed.  =D
I promise not to duck.

230RN

  • saw it coming.
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 18,965
  • ...shall not be allowed.
Re: Flying Through Anti-Matter
« Reply #7 on: May 14, 2015, 05:23:38 PM »
Me:
"It was found, according to the fiction..."


Bearing in mind that Seetee Shock* was a work of fiction, and in fact was part of a series, and also bearing in mind the period in which this was written, the notion of solar and other particles constantly impacting Seetee ("Contra-Terrene," i.e., antimatter) asteroids was not, to my recollection, addressed in the novels.

In fact, when reading it, the thought occured to me that if Seetee asteroids existed, the night sky would be full of flashes due to such collisions, even of tiny particles.  The notion of solar wind particles neutralizing and eroding such asteroids and particles did not occur to me.  I wonder, indeed, if the solar wind was even known in those days.  Question mark.

Looking back, as a work of fiction, the seetee premise was no more "out of bounds" than Asimov's premise about positronic pathways in the "brains" of his robots.  Or Jules Verne's premises in his various books.  :laugh:

Thus, given the tenor of the times and the ability of a youngster such as myself to "suspend reality," what fascinated me was the intricate "engineering" details of how the material might be mined, handled, machined, and ultimately used for power generation.

(Whle it is true that mere contact would blow the two masses apart, thereby stopping any further atomic reaction in vacuo, if the hypothetical missile with magnetically-separated seetee core struck anything in an atmosphere, the fragments would then be surrounded by the atmosphere, and ultimately disintegrate, with the 100% conversion.)

Sooo, all in all, it was a fascinating book, and if I had time, I would see if it were still available in the library.

"But it only works for spherical chickens in a vacuum."  :laugh:

Terry

*ETA:  "Seetee" stands for "Contra-Terrene" matter, the "Shock" refers to the cumulative radioactive exposure involved in working with it.

PS, afterthought, a bit of musey:  It struck me, in referring to Asimov's positronic pathways, how modern transistors, unknown in his day, operate on  current being carried by "holes" in the p-n layers...  a prescient concept of his?  <Terry drums fingers on desk, stares at the ceiling for a while...>
« Last Edit: May 14, 2015, 06:09:27 PM by 230RN »
WHATEVER YOUR DEFINITION OF "INFRINGE " IS, YOU SHOULDN'T BE DOING IT.

MechAg94

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 33,886
Re: Flying Through Anti-Matter
« Reply #8 on: May 14, 2015, 11:04:22 PM »
Someone skimmed.  =D
You assume I even looked at the link.   =D
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

Boomhauer

  • Former Moderator, fired for embezzlement and abuse of power
  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,365
Re: Flying Through Anti-Matter
« Reply #9 on: May 14, 2015, 11:13:47 PM »
I hope they leave the ejection seat in the A-10 for the pilot...

Quote from: Ben
Holy hell. It's like giving a loaded gun to a chimpanzee...

Quote from: bluestarlizzard
the last thing you need is rabies. You're already angry enough as it is.

OTOH, there wouldn't be a tweeker left in Georgia...

Quote from: Balog
BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD! SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE! AND THROW SOME STEAK ON THE GRILL!

230RN

  • saw it coming.
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 18,965
  • ...shall not be allowed.
Re: Flying Through Anti-Matter
« Reply #10 on: May 15, 2015, 07:47:13 AM »
I hope they leave the ejection seat in the A-10 for the pilot...



Jeeze, talk about jumping out of the frying pan into the fire...
WHATEVER YOUR DEFINITION OF "INFRINGE " IS, YOU SHOULDN'T BE DOING IT.