Blackhawk helicopter, anyone?

[Jamisjockey]

http://gsaauctions.gov/gsaauctions/aucitsrh/?sl=91QSCI15267304

[Northwoods]

Only if it's dark green.  Black is right out!

[Scout26]

Do they have anything in an M1A1 Abrams?

[just Warren]

Do they have anything in an M1A1 Abrams?

M60A3s are cheaper to run and look a lot better.

[freakazoid]

Only if it's dark green.  Black is right out!

Anybody else getting the, Go GREEN... Reuse is Recycling, ad. 

Note: If the reserve price is not met, the aircraft may be offered to high bidder at the discretion of the government.

I bid $1 please!

[Devonai]

I'd rather buy the lot of 30 office chairs for S20 and rent a canister of helium and 10,000 balloons.

[roo_ster]

M60A3s are cheaper to run and look a lot better.

But the M60A2 best personifies the feature-bloat and reliability-cratering found in fantabulous 1970s-era American ground vehicles.

[dogmush]

I wonder what it would cost to get the FAA to issue the appropriate civilian type certs for a blackhawk.

UH-60's are actually pretty badass choppers.

[41magsnub]

I wonder what it would cost to get the FAA to issue the appropriate civilian type certs for a blackhawk.

UH-60's are actually pretty badass choppers.

Yeah, the purchase price will be the least of the expense.

[Scout26]

But the M60A2 best personifies the feature-bloat and reliability-cratering found in fantabulous 1970s-era American ground vehicles.

Ahhh yes, the old "Starships", when paired with the M114 (whadda mean you want to put troops inside?) excelled in their ability to reduce the Russians to tears....of laughter.

[RevDisk]

I wonder what it would cost to get the FAA to issue the appropriate civilian type certs for a blackhawk.

UH-60's are actually pretty badass choppers.

It'd be classed as experimental, most likely. But entirely possible. You can get appropriate civilian certs for literally anything as long as you can get an engineer to sign off. The FAA costs aren't cheap, but they're not a huge sum of money. Getting everything up to a level certified by A&P mechanics, engineers, etc would probably run $100k to $2m, depending on the condition of the bird. Yes, that's a wide range. But the military doesn't sell vehicles or aircraft unless they're beat to hell or have a surplus of several bazillion.

[dogmush]

It'd be classed as experimental, most likely. But entirely possible. You can get appropriate civilian certs for literally anything as long as you can get an engineer to sign off. The FAA costs aren't cheap, but they're not a huge sum of money. Getting everything up to a level certified by A&P mechanics, engineers, etc would probably run $100k to $2m, depending on the condition of the bird. Yes, that's a wide range. But the military doesn't sell vehicles or aircraft unless they're beat to hell or have a surplus of several bazillion.

That thought had occored to me as well.  It looks OK in the pictures, but one has to wonder why we're selling it.  To my knowledge, we're not getting rid of Blackhawks, so that would imply that something happened to that bird that repair would exceed the Maintenance Expenditure Limit of the aircraft.

[41magsnub]

The army is ditching the A model blackhawks.  Some are getting upgraded to the L standard, they are retiring the higher hour ones.

[just Warren]

@RevDisk

If you buy it to decorate some facility or be part of a TV set or some such none of that matters, right?

[dogmush]

The army is ditching the A model blackhawks.  Some are getting upgraded to the L standard, they are retiring the higher hour ones.

I found that when I went looking for the $amount of an A model's MEL.  GSA actually put up the Open Fault list on that helicopter.  It doesn't have any major deadlineing faults.  Some operational restrictions from stuff they took off, a De-Icer is down, and a ton of upcoming inspections being due.  Might not actually be that beat up.

[RevDisk]

@RevDisk

If you buy it to decorate some facility or be part of a TV set or some such none of that matters, right?

If it doesn't leave the ground, it's not FAA's jurisdiction. No certs or signoffs. Just a truck to cart it from Point A to Point B. 

I found that when I went looking for the $amount of an A model's MEL.  GSA actually put up the Open Fault list on that helicopter.  It doesn't have any major deadlineing faults.  Some operational restrictions from stuff they took off, a De-Icer is down, and a ton of upcoming inspections being due.  Might not actually be that beat up.

That combined with 41magsnub, if it's an older model A and it has a backlog of high mileage work (I glanced over the fault list, it's fine for clear weather daytime flights), then you could get it airworthy for probably under a $100k. However, KEEPING it in the air will get pricey. You'd need a shop to look it over if you intend to run up more than a couple hundred hours.

[Ben]

It'd be classed as experimental, most likely. But entirely possible. You can get appropriate civilian certs for literally anything as long as you can get an engineer to sign off. The FAA costs aren't cheap, but they're not a huge sum of money. Getting everything up to a level certified by A&P mechanics, engineers, etc would probably run $100k to $2m, depending on the condition of the bird. Yes, that's a wide range. But the military doesn't sell vehicles or aircraft unless they're beat to hell or have a surplus of several bazillion.

Interesting. So they don't make a demilled civilian equivalent already? I'm thinking along the lines of UH-1 and Bell 212.

[dogmush]

Meh.

Once we arm it and install it on the APS Pirate Hunting Ship, who cares what the FAA says?

Interesting. So they don't make a demilled civilian equivalent already? I'm thinking along the lines of UH-1 and Bell 212.

Don't think so.  I've never seen one flown by a non .gov entity. 

[RevDisk]

Interesting. So they don't make a demilled civilian equivalent already? I'm thinking along the lines of UH-1 and Bell 212.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikorsky_S-70

S-70 predates the UH-60 USG designation. Technically yes, civilian equivalents exist, but near exclusively for fire fighting. Very very few civilian S-70's around. Most of them are military UH-60's used for 'civilian' but still government usage.

[Scout26]

I found that when I went looking for the $amount of an A model's MEL.  GSA actually put up the Open Fault list on that helicopter.  It doesn't have any major deadlineing faults.  Some operational restrictions from stuff they took off, a De-Icer is down, and a ton of upcoming inspections being due.  Might not actually be that beat up.

Given the wars we've been in for the last 13+ years, I think every major end item in the system has been pretty much rode hard and put away wet/beat to crap.

[Boomhauer]

Interesting. So they don't make a demilled civilian equivalent already? I'm thinking along the lines of UH-1 and Bell 212.

You can buy a civilian blackhawk...if you have several million bucks in the bank.

Remember when you start talking about turbine helicopters you are not talking about hundreds of thousands of dollars, but millions of dollars.

[Ben]

You can buy a civilian blackhawk...if you have several million bucks in the bank.

Well, 212s cost the same, but you see them everywhere in the commercial market. I was thinking there would have been a commercial interest in the 60s as well, but i don't really know the capabilities of the aircraft, and maybe it's not as suited to as many commercial applications as it is to military ones. The 212 is kind of a big old flying Suburban.

[RevDisk]

Well, 212s cost the same, but you see them everywhere in the commercial market. I was thinking there would have been a commercial interest in the 60s as well, but i don't really know the capabilities of the aircraft, and maybe it's not as suited to as many commercial applications as it is to military ones. The 212 is kind of a big old flying Suburban.

Sikorsky hasn't pushed it. Obviously, Blackhawk is ITAR as hell. Their commercial helicopters are the S-92 (think Blackhawk on steroids) and the S-76, which is for posh executive transport mostly. S-92 is mostly for oil rigs, it's a flying school bus. Blackhawk is built for combat and has a lot of design features relating to it, it's expensive. Huey (Bell 212, as Ben said) is the choice for medium sized transport helicopters. There's also the Airbus H145 and AgustaWestland AW109.

Sikorsky is big, dumb, expensive and slow. It's riddled with bureaucracy and corporate theocracy of management fads. Eurocopter/Airbus isn't tied down by ITAR and anti-bribery laws, which gives them a lot of flexability. In addition, their government lobbies to get them international business a lot harder than the US government does for US companies. Augusta and Bell are the much smaller (but cheaper) companies for Europe and US. Obviously, beyond that you have regional players in Russia and China that roll their own helicopters. Korea and Japan build their own, but a lot are western designs that they license.