Author Topic: Freakonomics - abortion - I did not know that  (Read 1387 times)

Perd Hapley

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Freakonomics - abortion - I did not know that
« on: July 10, 2016, 04:01:42 PM »
I was unaware that the more abortions, less crime theory had been debunked.

http://www.economist.com/node/5246700

It was always enough for me that it was a way to reduce the perceived crime rate by legalizing murder, so...
« Last Edit: July 10, 2016, 06:08:50 PM by fistful »
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Ron

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Re: Freakonomics - abortion - I did not know that
« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2016, 04:51:40 PM »
It never mattered to me one way or the other.

Even if true, to me, the end didn't justify the means.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2016, 07:33:25 AM by Ron »
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Freakonomics - abortion - I did not know that
« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2016, 06:11:35 PM »
It never mattered to me one way or the other.

Even if true to me the end didn't justify the means.


Sure, but it still seemed possible to me that murdering some of the more at-risk population while they're in utero may lead to a lower recorded crime rate later on. As hideous an idea as that may be. Good to see some doubt has been cast on such a theory.
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AJ Dual

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Re: Freakonomics - abortion - I did not know that
« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2016, 06:31:46 PM »
The one I'd like to see "tested" isn't crime. I always assumed that both the improved economy in the 80's and 90's, and that the tail-end of the baby boomers aging out of "crime prime years" of males aged 15-30 or whatever, is what dropped our crime rate so precipitously from it's peak. I never bought the Freakanomics argument on Abortion and Crime, when there were other demographic changes that were so much larger that easily swallow it's impact.

Also, I'll note after reading the article, that the author admits the other economists and statisticians merely found one flaw in the controls Donohue and Levitt applied. They did not prove anything in the opposite direction.

I haven't seen anybody yet debunk the other big assertion made in Freakanomics, namely that abortion depopulates the Democrat voting base. Of course, that just begs another "the ends don't justify the means" argument I guess. Even if completely banning abortion now, could it be done, my gut instinct is that it would likely mean a Leftist majority would just re-legalize it in 18-20 years again, and we'd lose the Constitution, Capitalism, and RKBA along the way (or at least faster than we would otherwise).  But of course abortion is one messy debate, with most all sides arguing at cross purposes and not really addressing each other's ideological basis or concerns.

As an aside, between Roe V. Wade, and our Welfare State keeping our "native underclass" out of low-level and entry-level service sector, manufacturing, agricultural, and construction jobs, that's why I am guessing we have the unholy alliance between the Democrats who want to poll pack, and the "Chamber of Commerce" pressures on the GOP to open the floodgates to illegal imigration.
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Firethorn

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Re: Freakonomics - abortion - I did not know that
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2016, 05:12:15 AM »
The one I'd like to see "tested" isn't crime. I always assumed that both the improved economy in the 80's and 90's, and that the tail-end of the baby boomers aging out of "crime prime years" of males aged 15-30 or whatever, is what dropped our crime rate so precipitously from it's peak.

That and the ending of the use of leaded gasoline.

AJ Dual

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Re: Freakonomics - abortion - I did not know that
« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2016, 12:22:37 PM »
That and the ending of the use of leaded gasoline.

There is that.

But the whole leaded gas thing makes me cranky.

Because it was used in the reboot of Cosmos as a 15 minute long analogy as to why Anthropogenic Global Warming must also be "real".  :P

At least they warned me early enough to not bother with the rest of the series. I was really hoping that it would be a reboot of the original awe and wonder, just enhanced with modern graphics, but nope.
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lee n. field

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Re: Freakonomics - abortion - I did not know that
« Reply #6 on: July 11, 2016, 01:44:20 PM »
Quote
I haven't seen anybody yet debunk the other big assertion made in Freakanomics, namely that abortion depopulates the Democrat voting base.

The reproduce by other means. 
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re:
« Reply #7 on: July 11, 2016, 01:51:21 PM »
If you look at the fact that more black children have been aborted than there are currently living black folks in the USA the depopulate the democrats voter base seems sound

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makattak

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Re: Freakonomics - abortion - I did not know that
« Reply #8 on: July 11, 2016, 03:15:26 PM »
If you look at the fact that more black children have been aborted than there are currently living black folks in the USA the depopulate the democrats voter base seems sound


Here's a data point I was not aware of.

Edit: Looks like you may be a little off. Current estimates for black population is about 39 Million and estimates of black babies murdered is about 17 million. (Since 1973) http://www.abort73.com/abortion/abortion_and_race/

Might have been that more black children are murdered in utero than are born. (Which is thought to be the case in several cities.)
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re:
« Reply #9 on: July 11, 2016, 03:17:48 PM »
Sad to be able to say it

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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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AJ Dual

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Re: Freakonomics - abortion - I did not know that
« Reply #10 on: July 11, 2016, 03:27:43 PM »
The reproduce by other means. 

Fission?
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re:
« Reply #11 on: July 11, 2016, 03:28:19 PM »
I stand corrected the numbers I quoted were wrong
http://www.blackgenocide.org/black.html

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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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lee n. field

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Re: Freakonomics - abortion - I did not know that
« Reply #12 on: July 11, 2016, 04:36:23 PM »
Fission?

by dominating public education
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Freakonomics - abortion - I did not know that
« Reply #13 on: July 11, 2016, 04:43:36 PM »
by dominating public education


I assumed you meant immigration and border-jumping.
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AJ Dual

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Re: Freakonomics - abortion - I did not know that
« Reply #14 on: July 11, 2016, 09:35:37 PM »
by dominating public education

Maybe it's my feedback to my kids, but they're pretty skeptical. And at least at the grade school and Jr. High level, not all public schools seem to have the big curriculum of Alinsky indoctrination people fear. I've been keeping an eye out, and the worst I've seen is some Anthropogenic global warming stuff. Which my kids are all rejecting. And we try our best to be careful just pointing out how it's a "bandwagon" and the holes in "95% of ALL scientists agree" type of tripe that goes out there.

At the college level, just how it was in the 90's... I know it turned me off massively, and was at least somewhat formative in making me "go the other way". I'd have to think half the kids now just roll their eyes and see it for what it is and simply don't argue to get their degree, but don't believe it at all.
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Re: Freakonomics - abortion - I did not know that
« Reply #15 on: July 12, 2016, 02:10:28 AM »
Maybe it's my feedback to my kids, but they're pretty skeptical. And at least at the grade school and Jr. High level, not all public schools seem to have the big curriculum of Alinsky indoctrination people fear. I've been keeping an eye out, and the worst I've seen is some Anthropogenic global warming stuff. Which my kids are all rejecting. And we try our best to be careful just pointing out how it's a "bandwagon" and the holes in "95% of ALL scientists agree" type of tripe that goes out there.

At the college level, just how it was in the 90's... I know it turned me off massively, and was at least somewhat formative in making me "go the other way". I'd have to think half the kids now just roll their eyes and see it for what it is and simply don't argue to get their degree, but don't believe it at all.
Same here my kids classes discuss gun control with mostly kids being not in favor

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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

RoadKingLarry

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Re: Freakonomics - abortion - I did not know that
« Reply #16 on: July 12, 2016, 03:05:02 AM »

I assumed you meant immigration and border-jumping.

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