Fram Ultra Synthetic Oil Filter

[K Frame]

Any thoughts?

It's more expensive than the other Frams, but I sprang for the extra $2.00.

Seem to get good reviews.

[Hawkmoon]

The consensus on the Jeep forums where I hang out is that friends don't let friends buy Fram.

Fram was a good brand of filter forty years ago. Not so today. I wouldn't trust even their "premium" version.

[K Frame]

All of the "testing" reports I'm finding are saying that they're decent filters. Then again, how good is the testing...

I've heard similar things over the years about Fram. Then again, I've heard similar things about most other filter brands, as well.

I would have bought a different filter, but the Walmart where I was at had Fram and Delco. No Bosch that I could find, and no K&N.

[Calumus]

Over on bobistheoilguy the consensus seems to be that unlike other Frams, The Ultra is pretty good.

[Boomhauer]

I'm not about to buy a Fram oil filter of any kind.

Napa has Wix, the major chains carry K&N, sometimes wix, purolator, etc.

[lupinus]

I'm not a fan o fram.


Sent from my iPhone. Freaking autocorrect.

[never_retreat]

Wix filters here. I thing the napa gold are made by them as well. Same part number with a letter added to the front end if I remember correctly.

[brimic]

For your Subie?
I do not use Fran.
wix or k&n

[Firethorn]

All of the "testing" reports I'm finding are saying that they're decent filters. Then again, how good is the testing...

Indeed.  All testing I've read about:  Fram extra-guard(their cheapest line) is relative crap, but still going to get the job done in an adequate fashion better than 99% of the time.

Their higher line filters, such as the tough guard, are as durable, efficient, and reliable as any others on the market, sometimes better.

That said, I've heard that their high mileage filter, while a good filter, has additives(teflon) that shouldn't be in the engine.

[French G.]

Buy Wix if for no other reason than it being made in Gastonia, NC. Good filters, use them on race motors. Got a bosch on the Subaru currently. Despise that filter, first car I ever bought a wrench for, the thing is jammed up in a warren of exhaust pipe, no way to put a hand to it, especially when hot. On the bright side no rock will ever hole that filter, no way to get there.

[Ben]

Over on bobistheoilguy the consensus seems to be that unlike other Frams, The Ultra is pretty good.

I went with the Fram Tough Guard on my last vehicle based on good old Bob's recommendations.

I haven't decided what brand to use on the new vehicles, which are both element (or whatever you call the enclosed ones) filters.

[Firethorn]

I haven't decided what brand to use on the new vehicles, which are both element (or whatever you call the enclosed ones) filters.

All oil filters are "enclosed" in some fashion, I think.  Do you mean spin-on canister types?  Or an element filter - where it'll look more like a small air filter, with the metal body not being a regular replacement item.

My motorcycle takes an element filter, my truck takes a can.

[Ben]

All oil filters are "enclosed" in some fashion, I think.  Do you mean spin-on canister types?  Or an element filter - where it'll look more like a small air filter, with the metal body not being a regular replacement item.

My motorcycle takes an element filter, my truck takes a can.

Yes, the latter, not the can, which all my previous vehicles (except the diesel) have come with. Seems like the element filter is becoming the more common one in newer cars?

[lupinus]

Yes, the latter, not the can, which all my previous vehicles (except the diesel) have come with. Seems like the element filter is becoming the more common one in newer cars?

Kinda sorta maybe not really.

A fair number of newer cars have them, but plenty don't. The 07 Saturn my wife owned had the element style (and every single time getting that cap off was a BITCH).

Both the 2012 Ford Fiesta and 2016 Jeep Patriot we have now have good old can style filters.

[mtnbkr]

Both the 2012 Ford Fiesta and 2016 Jeep Patriot we have now have good old can style filters.

So does my 2013 Focus. 

And my 2007 Honda Odyssey and 1997 Toyota 4Runner.

FWIW, I'm not entirely convinced filter "quality" is all that critical if you're not on the extremes of usage (severe duty cycle, very long change intervals, custom engines with special needs, etc).  I think filter selection is like the 9mm vs 40sw vs 45acp argument.  You're better off getting a name brand (9mm) and changing your oil/practicing a lot vs obsessing about the filter/cartridge.

My "preference" is Purolator (based on a BITOG review I read years ago, probably outdated by now), but I buy my oil at Walmart (several dollars cheaper per 5qt jug), where they only carry Fram, Motorcraft, Bosch, and store brand.  Rather than making a special stop for a different filter, I just get Fram and make sure I change my oil per the manufacturer's guidelines.  I keep most of my vehicles to 200k and beyond (4Runner is at 211k, Odyssey is at 130k) and use or have used Fram in most of them.  If Fram was such unmitigated garbage, I would have experienced oil-related issues at some point.

Ok, I do primarily use Purolator in the 4Runner these days, but that's mainly because I bought a lifetime supply of them when Walmart discontinued and put them on clearance for $1.50 each.  Because I only put 1k-3k miles a year on the 4Runner, I change its oil only once a year.  At that rate, the 7 filters I have will last as long as I'm likely to keep the truck (it'll be nearly 30 years old when I run out of filters).

Chris

[lupinus]

I agree to a point.

A decent quality filter is a decent quality filter, and after a certain point you're splitting hairs. It's mainly where you set the line for quality, and IMO the basic fram doesn't quite hit it.

[mtnbkr]

It's mainly where you set the line for quality, and IMO the basic fram doesn't quite hit it.

I suppose, but what is the consistent, real world implication of that lack of quality?  I don't mean lab testing that makes minuscule differences seem substantial, but what is the risk for someone who will put 100k-200k on an car that's only driven on roads, not used for towing, and changes the oil every 3k-10k miles (the published interval range for my 3 autos).  I'm also not interested in an anecdote of a catastrophic failure "while driving along".  I'm looking for evidence that the filter is crap and will result in premature engine failure, which I haven't seen.  While I don't use them today (prefer the mid-grade Fram with the textured grip), I did use the cheap Fram exclusively on a Toyota coupe back in the mid 90s to early 2000s.  I sold that car at the 200k mark because we were about to have a kid and a 2-door coupe is not car-seat friendly.

I'm not saying they're perfect, but that the pattern in these threads is almost always the same.  Lots of claims, little useful info.  Considering the cheap Fram is likely the most purchased filter on the market, a consistent quality issue would result in a documented problem in real-world application, not something only measurable in lab testing.  It also means that more "bad" filters would be seen even if the failure rate was equal to the other manufacturers due to the volume of units in use.

Chris

[roo_ster]

I suppose, but what is the consistent, real world implication of that lack of quality?  I don't mean lab testing that makes minuscule differences seem substantial, but what is the risk for someone who will put 100k-200k on an car that's only driven on roads, not used for towing, and changes the oil every 3k-10k miles (the published interval range for my 3 autos).  I'm also not interested in an anecdote of a catastrophic failure "while driving along".  I'm looking for evidence that the filter is crap and will result in premature engine failure, which I haven't seen.  While I don't use them today (prefer the mid-grade Fram with the textured grip), I did use the cheap Fram exclusively on a Toyota coupe back in the mid 90s to early 2000s.  I sold that car at the 200k mark because we were about to have a kid and a 2-door coupe is not car-seat friendly.

I'm not saying they're perfect, but that the pattern in these threads is almost always the same.  Lots of claims, little useful info.  Considering the cheap Fram is likely the most purchased filter on the market, a consistent quality issue would result in a documented problem in real-world application, not something only measurable in lab testing.  It also means that more "bad" filters would be seen even if the failure rate was equal to the other manufacturers due to the volume of units in use.

Chris

All good points.  I'd like to see similar data, but it does not seem forthcoming.

I think the big, fat, #1 factor is just plain changing the oil regularly before the oil and filter combo performance degrades.  Do that and you get 80% of the benefit of best practices and best materials.  All the rest is an argument over the other 20%.

As to that other 20%:
1. Motors look like they are being built to tighter tolerances, given that many motors are running thinner oil than in the past and some motors require synthetic. "Zero-dubya-WTF?"

2. Those tighter tolerances are likely less, uh, tolerant of grit and other particulates.

3. We now even have oil filters designed for synthetics, which (given synthetics' generally greater flow rate) use tighter filter media.

That ^^^, while not the hard data I'd like, does point toward higher quality filters being better for newer autos.  Though I do suppose that some of the motor oil/filer marketing is designed to improve the emotional performance of the auto's owner rather than the auto's motor.

[brimic]

As to that other 20%:
1. Motors look like they are being built to tighter tolerances, given that many motors are running thinner oil than in the past and some motors require synthetic. "Zero-dubya-WTF?"

2. Those tighter tolerances are likely less, uh, tolerant of grit and other particulates.

I know subarus recommend, no, demand that you use 0W-whatever oil. Its not for tighter tolerances, its because it allows them to eek out a few more MPG. I've also read on forums that some very experiences subie mechanics recommend using 5w20 or 10w30 even in the newer cars for longevity. I'm in the unfortunate situation where I have a 2014 with high miles (60,000 already) so I can't take a wait and see attitude to see if aging cars are seizing up early or if higher viscosity oils are better. I might switch anyway.

[mtnbkr]

All good points.  I'd like to see similar data, but it does not seem forthcoming.

I think the big, fat, #1 factor is just plain changing the oil regularly before the oil and filter combo performance degrades.  Do that and you get 80% of the benefit of best practices and best materials.  All the rest is an argument over the other 20%.

As to that other 20%:
1. Motors look like they are being built to tighter tolerances, given that many motors are running thinner oil than in the past and some motors require synthetic. "Zero-dubya-WTF?"

2. Those tighter tolerances are likely less, uh, tolerant of grit and other particulates.

3. We now even have oil filters designed for synthetics, which (given synthetics' generally greater flow rate) use tighter filter media.

That ^^^, while not the hard data I'd like, does point toward higher quality filters being better for newer autos.  Though I do suppose that some of the motor oil/filer marketing is designed to improve the emotional performance of the auto's owner rather than the auto's motor.

I agree that the tighter tolerances in new engines could dictate better filtering, but are those tolerances tight enough that the cheap Fram is insufficient?  That isn't clear to me.  Combined with no filter guidance from manufacturers, nor any stated filter specs on filter packaging, I don't believe it's quite an issue yet.  Otherwise, you'd see requirements from manufacturers stating "use filters that filter down to N microns" and notes on filter packaging that says "filters down to N microns" or something like the oil API classifications for filtering capability.

Again, better filters aren't a bad thing and the price difference between "cheap" and "good" is not budget busting, but it would be interesting to know what's "good enough" for the typical application.  Arguing the minutia is like arguing how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.

Also, what do fleet services use brand-wise?  That would provide some indication of what is good enough on a macro scale.

Chris

[RevDisk]

I've gathered that the unobtainium grade filters are probably not worth the cash, and aren't as important as regular changes.

But what are the generally "good" brands that are fine? I have used and preferenced Bosch, but admittedly haven't cared much beyond that. I admit that I generally just have the shop do the changes.

[roo_ster]

I know subarus recommend, no, demand that you use 0W-whatever oil. Its not for tighter tolerances, its because it allows them to eek out a few more MPG. I've also read on forums that some very experiences subie mechanics recommend using 5w20 or 10w30 even in the newer cars for longevity. I'm in the unfortunate situation where I have a 2014 with high miles (60,000 already) so I can't take a wait and see attitude to see if aging cars are seizing up early or if higher viscosity oils are better. I might switch anyway.

Oh, hells bells. 

Just when I think, "Self, you are just too cynical," I read something like this and realize I am not cynical enough.

Partial list of automotive innovations nobody asked for but we got anyway:
1. Turbo V6 gas motors in pickup trucks
2. 0W-whatever oil, trading motor longevity for a few more MPG
3. Ultra low sulfur diesel
4. Urea injection in diesel motors
5. Particulate traps in diesel motors
6. Moonshine in our gasoline
I know I am just scratching the surface here...

[Nick1911]

I've gathered that the unobtainium grade filters are probably not worth the cash, and aren't as important as regular changes.

But what are the generally "good" brands that are fine? I have used and preferenced Bosch, but admittedly haven't cared much beyond that. I admit that I generally just have the shop do the changes.

While not a through scientific test involving running and destroying hundreds of engines, I found this guys information pretty interesting: http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilters/

[Firethorn]

While not a through scientific test involving running and destroying hundreds of engines, I found this guys information pretty interesting: http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilters/

Critical point here, I think, is that even the cheapest Fram passes the SAE tests to make sure it meets manufacturer requirements.

[mtnbkr]

Critical point here, I think, is that even the cheapest Fram passes the SAE tests to make sure it meets manufacturer requirements.

And that's the sort of thing that makes me think it's not the major issue hobbyists make it out to be.  It's like any hobby, the near Aspies will argue the numerical minutia and percentages, but the truth is that "good enough" usually is.

9mm vs 45acp, Glock vs H&K, Shimano vs Sram, etc.

Chris