Author Topic: Pilots, ATCs: Another dumb question from Terry  (Read 1847 times)

230RN

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Pilots, ATCs: Another dumb question from Terry
« on: September 18, 2016, 12:55:48 AM »
I'm seeing these commercials for outdoor multi-laser Christmas decorations and I wondered what, if any, restrictions there are with respect to aircraft.

Looking at the video of the star shower (see video in this site), it seems impossible to set them up so they don't miss the house  and have beams go into aircraft space:

https://www.getstarshower.com/

Talk about "shooting over the berm" or hitting the ceiling at an indoor range...

Terry, groundlubber
WHATEVER YOUR DEFINITION OF "INFRINGE " IS, YOU SHOULDN'T BE DOING IT.

Jamisjockey

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Re: Pilots, ATCs: Another dumb question from Terry
« Reply #1 on: September 18, 2016, 06:23:39 AM »
From the FAQ
Quote
Is my Star Shower Motion safe to use anywhere?

Lasers must meet rigorous FDA regulations and Consumer Product Safety standards. Star Shower Motion should be pointed directly at your home and never directly into the sky. Lasers should not be projected at or within the flight path of an aircraft within 10 nautical miles of an airport. If your intended surface is within 10 nautical miles of an airport, lower the angle of the Star Shower Motion so that no lasers point into the sky.

And from the FAA website:
CFR 14
§ 91.11 Prohibition on interference with crewmembers.
No person may assault, threaten, intimidate, or interfere with a crewmember in the performance of the crewmember's duties aboard an aircraft being operated.

FAA Legal has interpreted this to include directly shining lasers at aircraft.
http://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Order/Change_11_2150.3B.pdf
JD

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Fly320s

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Re: Pilots, ATCs: Another dumb question from Terry
« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2016, 08:57:38 AM »
Those decorations are pretty low power and not very well focused.  I bet they are safe at 1 to 2 miles.

Like the website says, don't intentionally shine them into the sky, just to be safe.
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Hawkmoon

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Re: Pilots, ATCs: Another dumb question from Terry
« Reply #3 on: September 18, 2016, 10:16:52 AM »
What about neighbors? Or what if they shine into the house through the windows?

The FAQ reads like a recipe for disaster:

Quote
Star Shower Motion should be pointed directly at your home and never directly into the sky.

I'm sure every moron who buys one of these is going to pay strict attention to that caution.
- - - - - - - - - - - - -
100% Politically Incorrect by Design

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Re: Pilots, ATCs: Another dumb question from Terry
« Reply #4 on: September 18, 2016, 11:13:59 AM »
I've seen them in stores and stood just feet away from the projector.  Yes, they are bright, but they aren't "OMG, my eyes are burning!!!" bright.  I think all of the cautions and warnings are to appease the lawyers and give an affirmative defense should there be a lawsuit.

Seems like everything has warning labels these days.  I suspect the day will soon come when humans will come with this warning label, "Don't be stupid."
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230RN

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Re: Pilots, ATCs: Another dumb question from Terry
« Reply #5 on: September 18, 2016, 01:39:57 PM »
What, nobody told me, "RTFM, stupid?"

I somehow missed the FAQ section.  No excuse, Sir.

Actually, I was pretty tired after a grueling evening.  Shoulda known better than to post under those conditions.

Still, now I see the warning about pets and people not looking directly at the lasers.  Yeah, sure, try not to, Rover.

Incidentally, since they mention the FDA as the regulatory authority, I was surprised a couple of years ago that this was the case.  What?  Food and Drug Administration regulating lasers?

I was trying to find out if it was really, really required for the end user to stick those little warning labels for laser sights on one's firearm.  

After all, I thought (I was still able to think in those days --as opposed to now, in my dotage) the first application of cleaning materials such as (bows head and genuflects) Hoppe's #9 (Amen) would dissolve the adhesive and the warning label would fall off anyhow.

I got back a very specific answer from a real person in authority that it was not a requirement for the end user to affix that label under FDA regs.  No hemming, no hawing.*

So anyhow, thanks for supplying that info on those laser decorations, folks.  Duh me.

Terry, stupid groundlubber.

* He also mentioned that I should check for any State regulations on the matter, and with the Treasury Department (BATF).  He did not mention the Consumer Product Safety Commission.  However, this was all back in September of 2008.  Things may have changed since then.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2016, 02:28:39 PM by 230RN »
WHATEVER YOUR DEFINITION OF "INFRINGE " IS, YOU SHOULDN'T BE DOING IT.

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Re: Pilots, ATCs: Another dumb question from Terry
« Reply #6 on: September 19, 2016, 09:48:22 AM »
The total power of the laser displays is probably 5 mW or less - above that, additional restrictions (including in some cases STATE restrictions) come into play.

The grating that makes the "shower" splits the 5mW input into hundreds (thousands?) of separate beams, each of which carries a proportionate fraction of the original input - so each individual beam carries orders of magnitude less energy than the input.

If you look at displays around Christmas time, you'll probably notice that they're MUCH less impressive than you'd think from the commercials on TV. There's very little danger of temporarily blinding a pilot or anyone else unless you stick the emitter right up to their face.
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Re: Pilots, ATCs: Another dumb question from Terry
« Reply #7 on: September 19, 2016, 10:31:28 AM »
They are on Woot! this morning for $30

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Re: Pilots, ATCs: Another dumb question from Terry
« Reply #8 on: September 19, 2016, 11:09:10 AM »
If you look at displays around Christmas time, you'll probably notice that they're MUCH less impressive than you'd think from the commercials on TV. There's very little danger of temporarily blinding a pilot or anyone else unless you stick the emitter right up to their face.

I really think the low power makes them look cooler in a way.  Less boisterous than other light displays, and more of a subtle beauty.

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Re: Pilots, ATCs: Another dumb question from Terry
« Reply #9 on: September 19, 2016, 04:43:01 PM »
What about neighbors? Or what if they shine into the house through the windows?

The FAQ reads like a recipe for disaster:

I'm sure every moron who buys one of these is going to pay strict attention to that caution.

*expletive deleted*ed if I know.  Or care.   :laugh:
JD

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Trump won in 2016. Democrats haven't been so offended since Republicans came along and freed their slaves.
Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it. - Mark Twain
Government is a broker in pillage, and every election is a sort of advance auction in stolen goods. - H.L. Mencken
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it. - Mark Twain

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Re: Pilots, ATCs: Another dumb question from Terry
« Reply #12 on: September 19, 2016, 08:18:21 PM »
http://www.dx.com/p/200mw-532nm-green-laser-module-3v-11-9mm-26891

Actually my gripe was the neighbors with the house Christmas laser light show.

I damn well know what a real laser will do to someone. I've had the unfortunate experience of working a private flight that the pilot was injured during.
JD

 The price of a lottery ticket seems to be the maximum most folks are willing to risk toward the dream of becoming a one-percenter. “Robert Hollis”

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Re: Pilots, ATCs: Another dumb question from Terry
« Reply #13 on: September 20, 2016, 10:48:36 PM »
200mw will damage your retina in a fraction of a second.

Yeah, but I doubt there are any kilowatt-plus lasers that will fit in the housing of those things.

I want that laser mesh thing from Resident Evil.