Missing ships

[bedlamite]

Apparently, several ships missing from the floor of the Java sea:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-37997640

Logistics of Project Azorian aside, What value does a 70+ year old ship on the bottom of the ocean have?

[Hawkmoon]

The Guardian says it has seen 3D images, showing large holes in the seabed where HMS Exeter, HMS Encounter, the destroyer HMS Electra, as well as a US submarine, used to be.

Experts say salvaging the wrecks would have been a huge operation.

[K Frame]

Apparently, several ships missing from the floor of the Java sea:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-37997640

Logistics of Project Azorian aside, What value does a 70+ year old ship on the bottom of the ocean have?

Well, lots of high-quality metals.

A single prop from a ship that big can be worth hundreds of thousands or more.

I'd thought that the Java sea was deeper than that.

[freakazoid]

I remember watching something just recently on youtube talking about sunken ships. Talked about how one guy came up on a ship that he believes was that was looting all the metal, when they went down everything was stripped.

[lee n. field]

Apparently, several ships missing from the floor of the Java sea:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-37997640

Logistics of Project Azorian aside, What value does a 70+ year old ship on the bottom of the ocean have?

70 years -- end of WWII.   What were they carrying?

[Fly320s]

Missing?  When were they last seen?

If the ships were last seen 5 or 10 years ago, anything could have happened.

[K Frame]

70 years -- end of WWII.   What were they carrying?

They were sunk during the Battle of the Java Sea in February 1942.

They were engaging in combat operations again Imperial Japanese Navy ships, so they would have been carrying a full combat loadout of munitions, and likely not a lot else.

[MechAg94]

Missing?  When were they last seen?

If the ships were last seen 5 or 10 years ago, anything could have happened.

Yeah, I could see someone coming in and salvaging the screw or a few big chunks of high value metal.  I can't see anyone bothering with the steel.  Could be sea floor shifted or something caused it to sink in the mud. 

[just Warren]

From the makers of Piranhacane comes Zombie Warships of the High Seas!

[Parker Dean]

The USS Houston (CA-30) is in the area too. I wonder if anyone has checked on her recently?

[230RN]

https://news.usni.org/2014/08/22/nightmare-night-uss-houston-went

^ Found this, still reading it as I post.

Jap destroyers had come in close and illuminated her with searchlights as they raked her decks with machine-gun fire. Many men struggled in the water near the ship, others clung desperately to heavily loaded life rafts, and then to my horror, I realized that the Japs were coldly and deliberately firing on the men in the water. The concussions of shells bursting in the midst of swimming men sent shock waves through the water that slammed against my body with an evil force, making me wince with pain. Men closer to the exploding shells were killed by this concussion alone.

As of 2014 she was still there.

https://news.usni.org/2014/08/25/document-dive-report-uss-houston

[KD5NRH]

They were engaging in combat operations again Imperial Japanese Navy ships, so they would have been carrying a full combat loadout of munitions, and likely not a lot else.

Obviously it was big bore reloaders, then.

Really big bore.

[230RN]

An interesting (to me, anyhow) side note is the American Rifleman, February 2014 page 64, had a fascinating story by Michael J. Parker about the high likelihood that a lot of British automatic pistols were manufactured out of scrap steel from the German Graf Spee, which was scuttled in shallow water in Uruguay.  

The story about how the Brits obtained the salvage rights --involving chicanery, fake salvage companies, the very excellent German radar on the ship, its high quality steel, how that steel might have ended up as British weapons --is quite fascinating in a James Bond kind of way.

Most amusing was that the Germans helplessly sailed around the wreck (much of which was still above water) gnashing their teeth and watching while the Brits picked the ship (including its radar equipment) apart.

Terry

REF:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_cruiser_Admiral_Graf_Spee

[Parker Dean]

*snip*

I was under the impression that the Spee was still largely there. Not only that but it's quite a hike from Montevideo to Ol' Blighty for a relatively minor amount of scrap steel.

Now, salvage steel from some of the Imperial German High Seas Fleet units scuttled at Scapa Flow I could see being used that way

[K Frame]

I was under the impression that the Spee was still largely there. Not only that but it's quite a hike from Montevideo to Ol' Blighty for a relatively minor amount of scrap steel.

Now, salvage steel from some of the Imperial German High Seas Fleet units scuttled at Scapa Flow I could see being used that way

The point that the article made is that the British, through a shell corporation, obtained salvage rights.

The British then openly ordered Ballester Molina pistols, but most of Argentina's steel sources -- Germany, Britain, and the US -- were cut off due to the war.

But, oddly enough, enough steel was found to provide for the British order, which is what led to the speculation that it came from the Graf Spee.

But, testing of one of the guns in the British order couldn't conclusively link the steel to the ship.

[230RN]

^ Thanks for the extra detail, Mike.

A third or maybe even half the article was about that shell game.

I was under the impression that the Spee was still largely there. Not only that but it's quite a hike from Montevideo to Ol' Blighty for a relatively minor amount of scrap steel.

I believe you're correct, some of it still pokes out of the water, with navigation hazard buoys around it.

Another side note, according to the article, was that the Graf Spee had amazingly accurate gunfire, due to the radar sighting equipment.  This was why the Brits were so interested in the radar.

So, "salvage" may not be just for scrap, but intelligence.

It was a very rich article, all in all.  I suspect, but cannot know, that the author bought one of those guns, did research on it, and generated that very entertaining piece from the information obtained.

"What if this gun could talk?"

"What if this ship could talk?"

Terry, 230RN

[Parker Dean]

Another thing that comes to mind regarding the relative lack of salvage on the AGS over the years is that only one of the scuttling charges detonated in the after main magazine leaving the one in the forward magazine armed. It would certainly dampen my enthusiasm for doing much around the wreck.

As for the salvage rights business yeah that was a legal fiction to give the Uruguayan government cover while the British got what they wanted from the wreck.

[230RN]

AGS threw me, then I remembered the ship's proper name:  "Admiral Graf Spee."  Thanks for the reminder.