Two consenting adults?

[Perd Hapley]

So yesterday, I came across this:
http://www.dailywire.com/news/21651/girl-11-consented-sex-man-28-who-lured-her-park-joseph-curl

And I wondered if perhaps my multiple predictions are coming true, that consent will be just another taboo that we, as a society, must overcome, to stay on The Right Left Side of History. But I did note from the article that it wasn't so much that the creep was not punished for assaulting the girl. He was punished for a lesser crime. OK, so I put it in the back of mind, and didn't dig any deeper into the story.

And then, today, I see this:
http://nypost.com/2017/09/27/teen-kidnapped-by-teacher-doesnt-regret-it/?utm_source=zergnet.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=zergnet_2091384

The quotation marks around the word "kidnapped" caught my attention. If you take a minor across state lines, without parental consent, especially for those purposes, wouldn't that be considered kidnapping? Do the quotation marks merely reflect that the facts of the case were not as originally presumed? Or are they an editorial comment, meant to imply that 15-year-olds don't need permission to leave their homes, and can meaningfully consent to sexual acts with adults?

[De Selby]

How old was Mary when she gave birth to Jesus?

Not that this dude isn't a perv - just interesting how attitudes towards adulthood have changed over time.  Part of me thinks treating teens like children is the cause of many a lifelong issue.

[Perd Hapley]

It's very interesting, but I'm more interested in whether we're seeing early attempts to discredit the concept of consent, which can later be applied to adults. Consent is very subjective, isn't it? Every other word and concept is being deconstructed. Why shouldn't "no" be the next to go?

How old was Mary when she gave birth to Jesus?

No one knows. It's a little tacky to bring up Jesus's mom in this conversation, don't you think? I'm sure you could find some other, less religiously-charged mother, whose age we actually know about.

[De Selby]

It's very interesting, but I'm more interested in whether we're seeing early attempts to discredit the concept of consent, which can later be applied to adults. Consent is very subjective, isn't it? Every other word and concept is being deconstructed. Why shouldn't "no" be the next to go?


No one knows. It's a little tacky to bring up Jesus's mom in this conversation, don't you think? I'm sure you could find some other, less religiously-charged mother, whose age we actually know about.

No, consent isn't that subjective.  You're trying to use questions about capacity to consent to confuse the issue.

Capacity to make decisions has definitely been a fashion, and the modern version of it is different to what it was even 50 years ago.  Take a look at a survey of US age of consent laws over the 20th century sometime and tell me how there's been anything like a leftist plot on this.  If anything the radical feminists are the most responsible for the "18 or jail" laws that do exist.

[Perd Hapley]

On the first point, it's extraordinarily naive to suggest that consent is something so objective that it could never be overcome. We thought the same thing about biological sex just a few years ago.

On the second point, it wouldn't be the first time the left has changed its mind on a topic, or simply applied different principles to different situations. They make whatever argument they need, to achieve an outcome.

[dogmush]

I actually agree with the quotes on the second one. Sure, legally that's a kidnapping, but that girl ran away from home. The quotes make it clear she wasn't snatched up, duct taped, and thrown in a van, wh rich is what the term "kidnapped" usuallybrings to mind.

[MechAg94]

Yeah, it was common in a lot of places to marry girls off in their teenage years, but it was generally for marriage.  If some old guy hauled the daughter off just to have sex with her, I believe the relatives were usually upset about it.  So I am not sure consent was all that much different in past times in regard to parents being in charge of their daughters. 

Age of consent being at 18 in most states, I think that is just where the line is drawn in the law right now.  I thought most states allow relations/marriage with younger girls with parental consent, but that isn't the societal norm.

[Firethorn]

Age of consent being at 18 in most states, I think that is just where the line is drawn in the law right now.  I thought most states allow relations/marriage with younger girls with parental consent, but that isn't the societal norm.

My thought was "age of consent for what?"  Sex, Marriage, seeing a doctor, renting an apartment, etc?

Most states place sex at lower than 18.  Marriage without parental consent tends to be 18, but with can be incredibly low.

Part of me thinks treating teens like children is the cause of many a lifelong issue.

I've seen this with dorm rats in the AF.  Treat them like kids and they'll act like kids.

[makattak]

Part of me thinks treating teens like children is the cause of many a lifelong issue.

Until our culture and laws return to granting autonomy and responsibility to younger children, teens will be unable to function as adults.

In other and earlier societies, a 13 year old boy was considered a man and had begun his life as an apprentice/worker/etc...

Oh wait. Child labor laws. Can't get any job ("serious" job) until 16. It's wrong to force children to work!

How about just leaving children at home alone? Oh right. Less than 12 and you'll be charged with neglect.


So, do you believe that children are ready for adult decisions about sex but not for much less a weighty decision about work? Because I'm fairly certain if we changed the question from "age of consent for sex" to "age of consent for work" every one of the libidinous leftists would suddenly be up in arms about taking advantage of children.

My position is that our society has not prepared a 13 year old for any adult decisions. Leftists think they're perfectly capable of consenting to sex, but not for any other adult decision. Interesting, that.

_{(Edit: and this was post number 10,000 for me!)}

[Pb]

During Bible times, a typical age of a girl getting married was after puberty, 12.   

[Perd Hapley]

We're aware there's a difference between a cultural expectation of, and approval of, marriages between adult men and young girls; versus an adult fornicating with a girl that society considers to be, and treats as, a minor, right? We know those are much different situations, yes?

[Pb]

Outrageous decision by the court.

[MillCreek]

I recall Ms. MillCreek 2.0 telling me stories about the Navy would helicopter in a Snohomish county deputy to lecture the troops about Washington state laws before the carrier docked in Everett.  She said of particular interest to the male sailors was the age of consent for sexual contact (generally 16 in Washington state).  Many of the sailors came from states in which the age of consent was much younger, so this was a revelation to them as they headed to the local mall on liberty.

[MechAg94]

We're aware there's a difference between a cultural expectation of, and approval of, marriages between adult men and young girls; versus an adult fornicating with a girl that society considers to be, and treats as, a minor, right? We know those are much different situations, yes?

Which is why I was trying to mention societal norms.  Generally kids wait until after high school to get hitched with parent's consent.  Casual sex outside of marriage has become a huge grey area, but legally the line is drawn at 18 when the partner is older.  In Texas, it kicks in if the two are more than 3 years apart in age. 

My mention of marriage in old times is because that is my only reference.  Marriages were often between men and women with a wide age difference but that was normally with the consent of the parents.