Author Topic: Big brother is watching, v. 2938  (Read 1860 times)

Hawkmoon

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Big brother is watching, v. 2938
« on: March 07, 2018, 02:51:42 PM »
http://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2018/03/07/best-buy-geek-squad-fbi/

I've seen this alleged before, but I think this is the first time I've seen it asserted in a legal proceeding. I'm not in any way in favor of child pornography, but Best Buy's claims that the Geek Squad only does what's necessary to repair the customer's computer IMHO falls flat in tis case, because the alleged porn images were deleted files. If I bring a computer in for service because I think I have a virus, or I keep getting a blue screen of death, or the cup holder on the front of the machine broke when I set my Big Gulp on it ... the tech does not need to go rooting through my files at all, and he certainly has no need to start examining my deleted files.

When I was a child I had a lot of respect fr the FBI. Today I have only contempt for them.
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gunsmith

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Re: Big brother is watching, v. 2938
« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2018, 03:10:06 PM »
this worries me, i just bought a used laptop, the guy i got it from is a felon that i know from AA.
he relapsed and was taking speed/looking at porn.
On top of that, he's plain stupid, even without the addictions.
The laptop works though and I'm sure its not stolen because he got it for free with tax dollars, some kind of program for ex cons.
( I still have not figured out how to change the screen )
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MillCreek

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Re: Big brother is watching, v. 2938
« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2018, 03:12:02 PM »
Philosophically, this is similar to photo processors looking at all of your image files when you drop off the disk/USB stick and call the cops for any child porn that they find.
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Hawkmoon

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Re: Big brother is watching, v. 2938
« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2018, 03:18:22 PM »
this worries me, i just bought a used laptop, the guy i got it from is a felon that i know from AA.
he relapsed and was taking speed/looking at porn.
On top of that, he's plain stupid, even without the addictions.
The laptop works though and I'm sure its not stolen because he got it for free with tax dollars, some kind of program for ex cons.
( I still have not figured out how to change the screen )

http://www.puransoftware.com/Wipe-Disk.html

It's free, and AFAIK it works ... well. Read the instructions, and pay attention. It can be used to scrub only deleted files, or it can be used to completely wipe everything on the computer. You only want to scrub the deleted files. If you're worried, choose one of the deeper levels of security (multiple overwrites).
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cordex

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Re: Big brother is watching, v. 2938
« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2018, 03:20:04 PM »
Philosophically, this is similar to photo processors looking at all of your image files when you drop off the disk/USB stick and call the cops for any child porn that they find.
Do photo processors run the USB sticks through forensic data recovery and check all the deleted images for illegal material as well?

dogmush

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Re: Big brother is watching, v. 2938
« Reply #5 on: March 07, 2018, 03:34:34 PM »
this worries me, i just bought a used laptop, the guy i got it from is a felon that i know from AA.
he relapsed and was taking speed/looking at porn.
On top of that, he's plain stupid, even without the addictions.
The laptop works though and I'm sure its not stolen because he got it for free with tax dollars, some kind of program for ex cons.
( I still have not figured out how to change the screen )

Use whatever program Hillary used to wipe the disk.  That pretty much guarantees that the FBI won't find jack.

Perd Hapley

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Re: Big brother is watching, v. 2938
« Reply #6 on: March 07, 2018, 03:34:43 PM »
this worries me, i just bought a used laptop, the guy i got it from is a felon that i know from AA.
he relapsed and was taking speed/looking at porn.
On top of that, he's plain stupid, even without the addictions.
The laptop works though and I'm sure its not stolen because he got it for free with tax dollars, some kind of program for ex cons.
( I still have not figured out how to change the screen )

That's what I immediately thought of. Can we hold someone accountable for deleted files? If someone sells me a computer, am I accountable for files they deleted before they sold it to me? What if the date of deletion is after I bought it? Do they have to prove I knew it was there? After all, no one's going to look at each and every file that was left behind by a previous owner. What if I find such images on a computer I just bought? Is it safer for me to report the previous owner, or just delete them, and keep my mouth shut?
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MikeB

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Re: Big brother is watching, v. 2938
« Reply #7 on: March 07, 2018, 03:40:07 PM »
That's what I immediately thought of. Can we hold someone accountable for deleted files? If someone sells me a computer, am I accountable for files they deleted before they sold it to me? What if the date of deletion is after I bought it? Do they have to prove I knew it was there? After all, no one's going to look at each and every file that was left behind by a previous owner. What if I find such images on a computer I just bought? Is it safer for me to report the previous owner, or just delete them, and keep my mouth shut?

At a guess, intent is probably not required for prosecution for having child porn; seems most laws are going that way. And as we all know now intent only applies when you are Hillary Clinton, even if the law states intent isn't required.

dogmush

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Re: Big brother is watching, v. 2938
« Reply #8 on: March 07, 2018, 03:49:55 PM »
That's what I immediately thought of. Can we hold someone accountable for deleted files? If someone sells me a computer, am I accountable for files they deleted before they sold it to me? What if the date of deletion is after I bought it? Do they have to prove I knew it was there? After all, no one's going to look at each and every file that was left behind by a previous owner. What if I find such images on a computer I just bought? Is it safer for me to report the previous owner, or just delete them, and keep my mouth shut?

If the pictures or files are recovered by someone (geek squad or whatnot) they are by definition recoverable, and therefore you were in possession of them.  Child Porn possession laws require no intent.  If you are in possession of it, then you are guilty.

Perd Hapley

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Re: Big brother is watching, v. 2938
« Reply #9 on: March 07, 2018, 04:06:18 PM »
If the pictures or files are recovered by someone (geek squad or whatnot) they are by definition recoverable, and therefore you were in possession of them.  


That's the interesting part. If that's true, and if I found such images on a used computer, reporting the previous owner would make me liable to child porn charges. Sure, I might not be charged, or I might get immunity, but...
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dogmush

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Re: Big brother is watching, v. 2938
« Reply #10 on: March 07, 2018, 04:12:08 PM »
Quote from: Joseph Heller
“There was only one catch and that was Catch-22, which specified that a concern for one's safety in the face of dangers that were real and immediate was the process of a rational mind. Orr was crazy and could be grounded. All he had to do was ask; and as soon as he did, he would no longer be crazy and would have to fly more missions. Orr would be crazy to fly more missions and sane if he didn't, but if he was sane he had to fly them. If he flew them he was crazy and didn't have to; but if he didn't want to he was sane and had to. Yossarian was moved very deeply by the absolute simplicity of this clause of Catch-22 and let out a respectful whistle.


Or, more succinctly:

Quote
Mal: You called the Feds.
Jayne: I got pinched!
Mal: Which is what happens when you call the Feds.

Ben

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Re: Big brother is watching, v. 2938
« Reply #11 on: March 07, 2018, 04:13:01 PM »
If the pictures or files are recovered by someone (geek squad or whatnot) they are by definition recoverable, and therefore you were in possession of them.  Child Porn possession laws require no intent.  If you are in possession of it, then you are guilty.


This kind of thing is very scary for anyone who looks at buying anything used, or even reconditioned*. I consider myself pretty darn savvy on the computer security front, but that doesn't mean there's not something I might accidentally miss on used equipment. Even "full" scrubbers like boot and nuke are not completely safe, depending on security level. Obviously if "they" are processing your nuked hard drive to that point, you're probably in a lot more trouble than porn images. For most people though, who might just run a Windows reformat or something, this is very 1984.

* I posted here a couple of years ago I guess, about buying a "new" tablet on Amazon. It was offbrand Chinese. When I got it, there was already somebody else's google account set up on it. It was obviously not new, but likely a return that was reboxed without first being reset.  I returned it, but if there wasn't an obvious google account on the thing, it could just as easily have had files stuck in some subfolder that I would never think of checking. So in this case, not even "new" was safe.
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lee n. field

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Re: Big brother is watching, v. 2938
« Reply #12 on: March 07, 2018, 05:18:21 PM »
http://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2018/03/07/best-buy-geek-squad-fbi/

I've seen this alleged before, but I think this is the first time I've seen it asserted in a legal proceeding. I'm not in any way in favor of child pornography, but Best Buy's claims that the Geek Squad only does what's necessary to repair the customer's computer IMHO falls flat in tis case, because the alleged porn images were deleted files. If I bring a computer in for service because I think I have a virus, or I keep getting a blue screen of death, or the cup holder on the front of the machine broke when I set my Big Gulp on it ... the tech does not need to go rooting through my files at all, and he certainly has no need to start examining my deleted files.

When I was a child I had a lot of respect fr the FBI. Today I have only contempt for them.

I'm on the other side of that.  All I'll say is stuff does get seen by the tech, in the normal course of the work.  I've seen some rude stuff, but never anything that would require me to call the cops.  No, I don't normally go rooting through deleted or not-deleted files.

Geek Squad rep is, charging way too much and not terribly competent.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2018, 07:46:34 PM by lee n. field »
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lee n. field

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Re: Big brother is watching, v. 2938
« Reply #13 on: March 07, 2018, 05:19:34 PM »
this worries me, i just bought a used laptop, the guy i got it from is a felon that i know from AA.
he relapsed and was taking speed/looking at porn.
On top of that, he's plain stupid, even without the addictions.
The laptop works though and I'm sure its not stolen because he got it for free with tax dollars, some kind of program for ex cons.
( I still have not figured out how to change the screen )

Wipe and re-do.  I can make you a bootable Linux stick, if you want.
In thy presence is fulness of joy.
At thy right hand pleasures for evermore.

MechAg94

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Re: Big brother is watching, v. 2938
« Reply #14 on: March 07, 2018, 11:51:28 PM »
It must have been several years ago I heard an interview with someone.  I think she was a whistle blower of some type if memory serves.  She were under a lot of pressure from federal agencies over it.  The lady said she had a 3rd party security person go through her computer.  He found a file buried in a system folder that few people would ever consider looking in.  She didn't say it was child porn, but it was supposedly something that could have gotten her in trouble if Feds search her computer.  Might have been something classified but I don't remember.

I wasn't sure what to think of it at the time other than it was potentially a real risk the way the law is set up.    
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gunsmith

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Re: Big brother is watching, v. 2938
« Reply #15 on: March 10, 2018, 12:48:27 PM »
Wipe and re-do.  I can make you a bootable Linux stick, if you want.

I've been wanting to go back to linux, I don't know how to wipe a laptop/re-do.
My mail problems are unfixable right now too, any place i have been able to afford rent wise
I end up with welfare riff raff , hookers, speedfreaks and loud drunks as neighbors -
I'd rather stealth camp.

I'm hoping to get a friend in a red county here in NV to let me get mail at her place, quicker turn around for ccw stuff like requals.
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Boomhauer

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Re: Big brother is watching, v. 2938
« Reply #16 on: March 10, 2018, 04:36:05 PM »
Nothing stopping a geek squad member from planting a pile of shorteyes pics on an innocent man's computer and sending him to prison for some quick cash

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p12

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Re: Big brother is watching, v. 2938
« Reply #17 on: March 10, 2018, 05:35:02 PM »
Nobody touches my digital components without me there. So far anyway. Important stuff backed up. Nuke from orbit.


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