Author Topic: Judge sues earplug maker, Pharr shooting range  (Read 2295 times)

MechAg94

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Judge sues earplug maker, Pharr shooting range
« on: April 11, 2018, 02:53:04 PM »
http://www.themonitor.com/news/local/article_bfda9336-3c61-11e8-aff2-6b5b79a6b3d9.html
Quote
After the purchase, Flores traveled to a shooting range in Pharr called Point Blank Sporting Goods, owned by Shooting Academy of South Texas LLC, where he used the earplugs purchased beforehand.

“Plaintiff properly inserted the earplugs into both ears, as directed by the instructions on the side of the box of earplugs and entered the shooting range,” the suit states. “On the range, (Flores) fired a single box of ammunition with his Beretta pistol.”

Meanwhile, other people at the range, standing in adjacent lanes, were firing rifles and larger caliber pistols, the record states.

Flores further claims that upon finishing his session at the shooting range, he immediately felt a loss of hearing in both ears.

“The hearing loss in both ears (in the range of approximately 65 percent) has been diagnosed as permanent,” the lawsuit states.

Flores claims due to the permanent loss of hearing in both ears, he’s forced to wear hearing aids to conduct his duties as judge of the 139th District Court, the lawsuit states.

I thought I would post this here.  Any of you think he will succeed in his lawsuit?  I am doubtful.
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Scout26

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Re: Judge sues earplug maker, Pharr shooting range
« Reply #1 on: April 11, 2018, 02:56:09 PM »
Use this to push the Hearing Protection Act....
Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.


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lupinus

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Re: Judge sues earplug maker, Pharr shooting range
« Reply #2 on: April 11, 2018, 03:27:17 PM »
He didn't use proper safety gear. Ear plugs alone are no where near enough for an indoor range. Sounds like a personal stupidity problem he wants someone else to pay for.

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dogmush

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Re: Judge sues earplug maker, Pharr shooting range
« Reply #3 on: April 11, 2018, 03:34:32 PM »
He didn't use proper safety gear. Ear plugs alone are no where near enough for an indoor range. Sounds like a personal stupidity problem he wants someone else to pay for.

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You know that, and I know that, because we are shooters.  If the range didn't post "Double up" or let him walk onto an indoor range with improper hearing protection for the facility, he might have some traction in their liability.

Honestly, I've never been to an indoor range that had something like "Noise levels inside have been measured at 140dB, use protection appropriate for that level." signs.  My electronic muffs have a NRR of 19 and 22 dB (I have two kinds) and I've NEVER been asked to double up for a range.


ETA: From a quick google his "Super Leight" plugs have a NRR of 33 dB.  Which is normally considered OK for an indoor range.  Either he messed up wearing them, or that was an unusually loud range.

MillCreek

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Re: Judge sues earplug maker, Pharr shooting range
« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2018, 04:12:18 PM »
Speaking as someone with a permanent loss of hearing in both ears since birth, and have been using hearing aids for 51 years, I don't think the claim is worth big sums of money.  I got by in the courtroom just fine, usually.
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Hawkmoon

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Re: Judge sues earplug maker, Pharr shooting range
« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2018, 10:31:23 PM »
Trigger warning: Racist comment to follow










Plaintiff appears to be Hispanic. Judge hearing his case appears to be Hispanic. IMHO, his odds of prevailing are improperly very good.
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KD5NRH

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Re: Judge sues earplug maker, Pharr shooting range
« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2018, 02:37:34 AM »
Speaking as someone with a permanent loss of hearing in both ears since birth, and have been using hearing aids for 51 years, I don't think the claim is worth big sums of money.  I got by in the courtroom just fine, usually.

Once had a minister tell me he usually turned his hearing aids off when people started confessing stuff.  Figured his job was just to get you to talk to God about it and if he couldn't hear it, he couldn't let anything slip later.

Hawkmoon

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Re: Judge sues earplug maker, Pharr shooting range
« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2018, 03:51:19 AM »
You know that, and I know that, because we are shooters.  If the range didn't post "Double up" or let him walk onto an indoor range with improper hearing protection for the facility, he might have some traction in their liability.


"Might" being the operative word. IMHO, he shouldn't have any traction. He was shooting his own firearm, so he "should" know enough to be responsible for his own personal protection equipment. The range is only providing a place for him to engage in an activity of his choosing. Assigning them liability for his failure to use adequate hearing protection seems to me like the top of a long, slippery slope. What's next? If his gun has a mechanical defect, or he shoots over-loaded ammo, should the range be held liable when his gun blows up?

I've never seen a range with any advisory about doubling up hearing protection. I shoot at an indoor range. The range area itself is underground. There's a sort of corridor at the bottom of the stairs, with a wall and two doors separating the corridor from the range area behind the stalls. There are signs at the two doors, "Eye and ear protection required beyond this point." Nothing about what constitutes adequate protection.

If he had been shooting a rental gun and the range provided the hearing protection, then he might have some claim against them. Even then, protection rated 33 db is pretty good. It should be adequate protection, even indoors. There's more going on here. His suit claims he installed the plugs correctly, but I'd guess he couldn't have done so. I double up -- foam plugs, then muffs rated somewhere around 25 db. The way noise reduction works, I don't think my double adds up to 33 db, but it's plenty of protection when shooting 45 ACP in stall with hard surfaces on both sides and people touching off hand cannons in nearby stalls.
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Firethorn

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Re: Judge sues earplug maker, Pharr shooting range
« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2018, 03:58:47 AM »
My general rule of thumb - if it hurts, it's too loud, get out now.

The number of times I've seen improperly inserted plugs in the USAF...  And we're 'professionally' trained on how to use them.

Even today I don't have to buy plugs - I can get free disposable foamies from various spots around base, such as in the hospital/clinic.

French G.

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Re: Judge sues earplug maker, Pharr shooting range
« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2018, 06:32:00 AM »
Bull. And I have been shooting in indoor ranges for twenty years and spent the same amount of time around jet airplanes and race cars. First off, one exposure doing that would have created such immediate pian he would have left earlier. One exposure just won't do it. Did he have a loss already and cooked a scheme to get someone to pay for it? Maybe. Is this some come at you sidewao activist trying to shut down a range? Wouldn't put it past them. But it is not permanent loss from one shooting session, protection or not.

I had lots of fun, hearing conservation program in the navyast few years they misread their instruction and tried to ban me from the flight line for significant auditory shift. Yes it shifted, but the threshold for medical disqualification was about five times the level of my impairment.
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MechAg94

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Re: Judge sues earplug maker, Pharr shooting range
« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2018, 09:07:08 AM »
Bull. And I have been shooting in indoor ranges for twenty years and spent the same amount of time around jet airplanes and race cars. First off, one exposure doing that would have created such immediate pian he would have left earlier. One exposure just won't do it. Did he have a loss already and cooked a scheme to get someone to pay for it? Maybe. Is this some come at you sidewao activist trying to shut down a range? Wouldn't put it past them. But it is not permanent loss from one shooting session, protection or not.

I had lots of fun, hearing conservation program in the navyast few years they misread their instruction and tried to ban me from the flight line for significant auditory shift. Yes it shifted, but the threshold for medical disqualification was about five times the level of my impairment.
That was my thought.  I figured there was no way a single shooting incident in an indoor range resulted in 60% hearing loss.  IMO, he could have gone in there without hearing protection (that one time) and it wouldn't have hurt his hearing that much.  He was doing something else that hurt his hearing or had some other condition.  I also figure this isn't the first time the ear plug company has been sued and they should have their ducks in a row. 

For me, I typically use a Howard Leight soft foam ear plug that has the 33 dB protection.  You can buy them in 100 and 200 plug boxes at industrial supply stores.  I have always prefered to double up.  These days I double up whenever I can, even outdoors.
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Ben

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Re: Judge sues earplug maker, Pharr shooting range
« Reply #11 on: April 12, 2018, 09:28:37 AM »
The number of times I've seen improperly inserted plugs in the USAF...  And we're 'professionally' trained on how to use them.

Even if you know how to insert them, other factors can come into play. Thanks to a dive accident at work some years go, one of my ear canals seems to be slightly "reconfigured" as it were. It takes a lot of work to get a plug inserted in that ear properly, and even after it's set, it can work its way out. So target shooting,  I double up with electronic muffs, even outside, in case that plug works loose in the middle of emptying a mag.

So maybe he didn't insert them correctly, maybe he has abnormal ear canals, maybe it was too loud inside for only plugs. At some point personal responsibility has to kick in though. While any shooting without PPE can cause cumulative hearing damage down the road, if it's immediately damaging, I can't see that as being something that doesn't actually hurt immediately. If it hurts immediately, you stop and reassess.
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Pb

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Re: Judge sues earplug maker, Pharr shooting range
« Reply #12 on: April 12, 2018, 10:23:08 AM »
Bull. And I have been shooting in indoor ranges for twenty years and spent the same amount of time around jet airplanes and race cars. First off, one exposure doing that would have created such immediate pian he would have left earlier. One exposure just won't do it.

Oh, you are wrong.  A single incident of loud noise exposure (gunfire) absolutely can wreck the ears of some people- sometimes.

It happened to me.

I used to love to sport shoot.  I wore ear plugs and ear muffs both.

In early 2012 I fired one shot of a 12 gauge shotgun while wearing ear plugs only (I accidentally left the muffs around my neck).

This one shot gave me not only tinnitus, but hyperacusis- a medical condition where your sound tolerance collapses.  It is a seriously disabling condition.  It makes it very difficult for me to deal with loud environments, and at times, causes extreme ear pain in response to noise.  Needless, to say, I am completely unable to shoot any more.

If anyone wants to know more about this illness, feel free to ask me questions.

Sound suppressors plus plugs plus muffs are the only way to be sure you aren't damaging your hearing.  Sorry, that's a fact.

Ben

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Re: Judge sues earplug maker, Pharr shooting range
« Reply #13 on: April 12, 2018, 10:33:55 AM »
Oh, you are wrong.  A single incident of loud noise exposure (gunfire) absolutely can wreck the ears of some people- sometimes.

It happened to me.

I used to love to sport shoot.  I wore ear plugs and ear muffs both.

In early 2012 I fired one shot of a 12 gauge shotgun while wearing ear plugs only (I accidentally left the muffs around my neck).

This one shot gave me not only tinnitus, but hyperacusis- a medical condition where your sound tolerance collapses.  It is a seriously disabling condition.  It makes it very difficult for me to deal with loud environments, and at times, causes extreme ear pain in response to noise.  Needless, to say, I am completely unable to shoot any more.

If anyone wants to know more about this illness, feel free to ask me questions.

Sound suppressors plus plugs plus muffs are the only way to be sure you aren't damaging your hearing.  Sorry, that's a fact.


This is good to know. Thanks for the info - it's making me reevaluate my previous post.
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Re: Judge sues earplug maker, Pharr shooting range
« Reply #14 on: April 12, 2018, 02:07:10 PM »
Yeah, once is enough.  A friend of my dad's was a retired cop.  Hearing aids in both ears.  He responded to a domestic, and the husband came at him with a butcher knife.  One round of .357 out of a 4" revolver fired in a kitchen, and he's worn hearing aids ever since.
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French G.

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Re: Judge sues earplug maker, Pharr shooting range
« Reply #15 on: April 12, 2018, 02:39:51 PM »
Could be. My left ear is worse and I have both exploded a tire next to it and had it closer to a semi intentional indoor ar15 discharge. But I hear unaided after a ton of crappy exposure.
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MechAg94

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Re: Judge sues earplug maker, Pharr shooting range
« Reply #16 on: April 12, 2018, 04:42:29 PM »
That still sounds like a more personal condition the company couldn't be responsible for.
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Jim147

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Re: Judge sues earplug maker, Pharr shooting range
« Reply #17 on: April 12, 2018, 10:58:21 PM »
I can see this effecting people differently. I have been shooting since I was like 7 didn't know what hearing protection was until late 20's.

Doing a couple rounds of trap or sighting in the .270 was no big deal. Same with being right behind a top fuel dragster that would blow your hat off and almost knock you down. Many hours in aircraft but still no hearing problems.

Now change it to my cancer. The oncologist thought I would do pretty good as strong as I was and as long as it took to diagnose it. It decided to hit hard. Killed my immune system and most of my muscles are gone.

I don't see a case here but I will give him benefit of the doubt that things do happen to people in different ways.

Jim
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Pb

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Re: Judge sues earplug maker, Pharr shooting range
« Reply #18 on: April 13, 2018, 09:23:49 AM »
My audiologist told me that you have to lose 90% of your hair cells for a particular frequency before the damage shows up on an audiogram.  So you may think your shooting is not effecting you- until one day it does, when you kill the last few hair cells left at a particular frequency.

MechAg94

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Re: Judge sues earplug maker, Pharr shooting range
« Reply #19 on: April 13, 2018, 09:51:19 AM »
My audiologist told me that you have to lose 90% of your hair cells for a particular frequency before the damage shows up on an audiogram.  So you may think your shooting is not effecting you- until one day it does, when you kill the last few hair cells left at a particular frequency.
And that is a part of why I figured there were other activities that contributed to his hearing loss, not the one shooting event by itself.  If it actually makes it to trial phase, I would expect lawyers to go through his records for anything he did that might contribute to hearing loss.
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Pb

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Re: Judge sues earplug maker, Pharr shooting range
« Reply #20 on: April 13, 2018, 12:09:33 PM »
What the Judge needs to do is sue the federal gov for the obsecene fees and red tape that make sound suppressors unavailable to the large majority of shooters.

It is horrific that that the gov deliberately makes it difficult and expensive to buy a device that makes a gun safer.  The amount of suffering due to ear damage directly attributable to the NFA is incalculable.

It has caused me intense suffering since 2012, when I got hyperacusis from gunfire noise.

Hawkmoon

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Re: Judge sues earplug maker, Pharr shooting range
« Reply #21 on: April 13, 2018, 01:45:01 PM »
Disability rating for hearing is virtually automatic for Vietnam veterans, I found out. I didn't know this, but I applied for a disability that I still think is service-rated (and that I didn't get), and as part of the evaluation process for my claim they tested my hearing and awarded me a 10% disability for mild hearing loss plus tinnitus. I also get free hearing aids from the VA.
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