Need Advice From Guys With Teen Daughters

[The Rabbi]

My daughter turned 12 recently.  Today my wife and I were out walking for the newspaper and we saw my daughter riding her bicycle torwards us.  On the corner was a sort of seedy looking 19-yr old guy.  He proceeded to stare at her the whole time.  My wife noticed this and so did I.
Later as we talked about it my wife suggested "maybe he was just looking at the bicycle" and other things.  I fixed her a good look that said "yeah.  right."
At what point do you go over to some guy staring at your daughter and say "hey, buddy, knock it off" or similar?
Here she is btw in an Oleg creation: http://www.binarystorage.net/clients/liberty/samples/1938sample.jpg

[wmenorr67]

I usually will let them see me in my BDU's.  That usually takes care of anyone that has "bad" thoughts.

[Guest]

Don't worry about protecting her, because you're not going to be there when she needs it. Enroll her in self-defense training, both physical and mental. Not the stupid kind that will tell her not to wear her hair in a pony tail or other such nonsense..the kind that teaches her she has no obligation to be friendly to anyone, or smile for anyone, or help them find their stupid puppy or even talk to anyone, ever, if she doesn't want to, and that she has the absolute right to gouge out the eyes of anyone who wants to hurt her.

You know, her biggest risk isn't the creep on the street. It's the guy she gets infatuated with or the next door neighbor or great-uncle Bill. Teach her that, too.

[Stickjockey]

Looking at the pic, I'd say he was probably looking at the K98 on her shoulder!

Seriously, start working on situational awareness. Teach her to be aware of, and avoid, characters of this sort. Also +1 on the defensive training.

[grislyatoms]

I normally am very reserved and polite, as Rabbi is.

One time at the community swimming pool with my then step-daughter, one of the young punks I've seen around (and don't like much) was paying an inordinate amount of attention to my then step-daughter.

He began to strike up a conversation with her, and I cut right in.

"Let's get one thing straight right now. Stay the **** away from my daughter. This is the only time I will tell you"

Haven't seen him since.

By the way, stepdaughter said "Thanks, that guy is creepy."

YMMV

[RevDisk]

At what point do you go over to some guy staring at your daughter and say "hey, buddy, knock it off" or similar?

Unless it's for a protracted period of time (longer than a minute or two), I wouldn't worry about it.  If he starts obviously following her, immediately.  I do agree with the other posters that good self-defense courses should be a consideration.  Getting her involved in martial arts could be a thought also.

Of course, arming her with a K98 is solution.  One I highly recommend.   But some people object to a 12 year old carrying a rifle everywhere.  

[Winston Smith]

Heh, some guy was staring at my (admittedly very leggy) good friend, and usually all it takes is for them to notice you.. but this guy kept staring.

"Would you mind stopping staring?"

'I wasn't!"

Then he ran away.

[Werewolf]

I raised 3 daughters. All are in their 20's now and two are married so I can say with some credibility that if you freak out every time you notice some guy ogling your daughter you're going to have a miserable life until she gets married.

Guys - especially teenage guys - ogle girls. It's what they do! It's who they are! Get used to it.

Now - some guy ogling a 12 year old is wierd but there's no law against someone looking at another as far as I know. Confronting the guy is of course an option but be careful how you do it because the law (which isn't the same as justice or moral) will consider you the aggressor.

Just teach your daughter situational awareness so she can avoid situations that could get her in trouble. Self Defense classes are an option too.

Sometimes it's tough being Daddy when it comes to daughters (wait till she turns 13 or 14 and God reaches down out of the sky and flips the bitch switch on and doesn't turn it off until she's 18 or 19). You can't be there to protect them all of the time - hell you can't be there to protect them most of the time so the best you can do is to teach them to stay out of trouble and prepare them to get out of it when they do get into trouble.

[matis]

Hello,

The Rabbi, you ain't gonna fool me with that rifle hanging off her shoulder.

I know that you just wanted to show off your beautiful daughter!



My daughter is 10 weeks short of 17 years old.  She gets stared at in front of me, as well.

But not being either smart or polite, I tend to be confrontive when the starer pushes past my comfort threshold.  When that happens, I usually stare (glare?) back.  Almost always that ends it.

Should he continue, I will ask him if there's something I can do for him or something to that effect.

I've never had a problem with escalation past that point.

My daughter (usually) appreciates my reponses.

For ordinary peeking or even a quick stare, I take it as a compliment and so (usually) does she.  


But as others have mentioned, it is imperative to teach the girl situational awareness and how to take defensive measures.  Since we used to home-school her, it was easier for us to assign 'required" reading on self-defence for women, such as the Paxton Quigley books and books on general self-defence and firearms.

She shoots more acurately than I do!

I think Barbara's post covered it best: They've got to learn to take care of themselves.


As an aside, though, you can never cover all the bases when you teach them.

Last week I packed her off to the airport for her flight back to Connecticut where sho goes to school.  She was carrying her new laptop.  Since so many of those end up stolen, I was  impressing on her how careful she must be with it and with herself carrying it.  I warned her that some of the airport security people who man the metal-detector conveyor use cohorts to steal the laptop at the other end while they distract her with the wand, or "take off your shoes", etc.

I must have done a good job impressing her.  At her layover she called to tell me how well she had done:  She tried to insist that the security woman check the laptop directly without putting it on the conveyor.  The woman insisted she put it on the conveyor.  So my kid says to her, "OK, but if it disappears, it will be your job."!!

She says the woman only grunted.

I didn't think to warn her that these people have the power to make her miss her flight and worse.

Hey, she's the light of my life (as I know is yours) and life is good.

matis

[Azrael256]

You know, her biggest risk isn't the creep on the street. It's the guy she gets infatuated with or the next door neighbor or great-uncle Bill. Teach her that, too.

DING! DING! DING!  That's what set off my B.S. detector about a recent rape story from a friend.  The random rapist is about a one in a million shot.  The "here, try this new drink I came up with" at a frat party rapist is much more common.

I've got news for you dads: The guy you catch staring is the guy who hasn't learned to use his periperal vision yet.  We all develop a sense of when the parents are around.  Think about it.  Did you start that first conversation with your wife in a public place while her parents were right there?  Most of us develop it because it's hard to strike up a conversation and ask for a date while dad is glaring at you, but some develop it because dad's presence makes it hard to coerce, kidnap, and lord knows what else.  The real predator is usually smart enough to know that your presence changes the equation dramatically.  Dad standing there might as well be a platoon of Marines.  If you're there, nothing is going to happen.  This goes for all women who are surrounded by protective men.  This is why we don't let the girls at school go out by themselves at night.  The predator can easily fight one of the girls, but he instinctively knows that I'm going to make his attempt so difficult as to not be worth the six months in traction.  He knows you'll fight, and that you have far more experience, and are more likely to be armed and proficient in the use of a weapon than even I am.

Matis, that's why you've never had a problem.  You're basically threatening him.  You speak to him on an adult level: "can I help you," but he hears "you will be picking up your teeth if you come any closer."  I got that one from a transactional analysis book.  Read up on the subject.  It is really quite helpful in this sort of situation.  I recommend "Games People Play."

Most of the staring idiots are just that.  Some of them are looking for an opportunity to distract or separate you, but he would have to bring about ten of his buddies with him to stand a chance of his plan actually working.  That is why large-ish groups of guys my age who aren't wearing boy scout uniforms or carrying their chior robes are inherently dangerous.

Teach her to protect herself physically, but, more importantly, teach herself to steer clear of dangerous situations altogether.  She isn't very likely to be attacked while staying home because it's too late to be out and about.  If she is out somewhere without you, she is relatively safe with her big group of friends sitting in a movie theater.  Screen these people carefully.

[Waitone]

I feel for you, dood.  Been there and done that.  It ain't easy or fun.

You are about to find out how good a father YOU WERE.

The analogy I draw is impending teenagers, particularly females, are like rockets on the launch pad.  These beautiful rockets are an ongoing project in which you've invest considerable love, emotion, and funding.  The funding part is about to get far worse than you could imagine, but I digress.

When they turn 13ish your project work is complete.  All you can do is lite the fuse and stand back.  One of mine lifted off and rapidly accelerated with no apparent guidance problems.  Proud of my project work.

The other one flashed a huge explosion with lots of noise and smoke.  It became evident she developed a guidance problem in that her ability to accept supplemental instructions after launch.  She got off course and nosed over a few times only to pull it out before cratering.  After a few years of propulsion problems, guidance issues, and adaptive controls she straightened up and flew right.  I knew she was academically (?sp) gifted but had no clue until she came forth with 4 consecutive semisters of phi beta kappa performance.

Both kids grew up in the same house with the same brace of parents.  Kids are individuals and at some point their individuality will emerge.  Your job is now to begin taking larger and larger steps backwards.

Good luck to you. . . . . you will need it.

[Oleg Volk]

Rabbi,

Talk to hso (on THR) -- his kid is only 7 but he and his wife got a good idea on how to raise her able to fend for herself. Also therenaissanceman, his is 14(?) and quite capable of staying safe out there. I've been picking their brains for info for a while.

[matis]

Quote:
Matis, that's why you've never had a problem.  You're basically threatening him.  You speak to him on an adult level: "can I help you," but he hears "you will be picking up your teeth if you come any closer."  I got that one from a transactional analysis book.  Read up on the subject.  It is really quite helpful in this sort of situation.  I recommend "Games People Play."
________________________________________________________-

Azrael256, I agree with your take on this and with your opinion of Eric Berne's Transactional Analysis.  I have a dog-eared and well-underlined copy sitting on my shelves.

There is a certain humor in this situation.  Although hopefully not as predators, we nevertheless go after other men's daughters and then glare at those who would go after our own.

Of course, in the encounter, I am no way in touch with the humor.  Then I am intentionally threatening the bozo, and you're right: if he persists, I will certainly transact with him -- I'll stroke him in ways he won't soon forget.  Or, at least, that's the way I come off.



Quote:
I feel for you, dood.  Been there and done that.  It ain't easy or fun.
__________________________________________________________

Waitone, I'm glad your two are now flying right.

And you're quite right: it ain't easy.  But fun?  Come one, guy, you know that actually it is fun, don't you?

There are of course times when I have to crank up the anger, raise the voice and turn the glare upon HER.  That's what a good parent, when it's necessary, must do.

Perhaps it's because her birth was my 50th birthday present, that I experience it as fun.  Even when we clash and I must turn up the voltage, I often feel another part of me, just watching the show, marvelling at her beauty, at how much I love her and overjoyed that G-d saw fit to entrust me (!) with her upbringing and care.

I'm probably quite schizoid, but I can, simultaneously, thunder at her when that is what is needed, and at the same time know that I'm just pretending the anger, while where I really am inside is overjoyed to have her in my life.

And I have no trouble, Waitone, discerning your pride in your daughter when you describe her 4 semesters of Phi Beta Cappa performance.


Easy? No.  Fun?  Absolutely!


matis


.

[TarpleyG]

Waitone,

I really like your analogy.  No kids yet on our end but my wife says "be ready" come September/October timeframe.  Great!!!

Greg

[telewinz]

I have a 17 year old daughter and two 20+ sons.  Girls are much easier to rear.  Work on your daughter not on the looker (a mean stare should be enough for him).  Don't let your wife give a heart to heart talk to your daughter, YOU DO IT!  She will run to Mom for conformation that "boys aren't really like that are they?"  But if your daughter is determined to be Ms Popularity at school...may God help you all.

[telewinz]

BTW...my son educated me yesterday on whats going on at our small (500 pupils), conservative high school.  Its the "popular" class leaders that do the pot, coke, and heavy drinking and it's VERY common.  He named names no less, one girl is banned from the National Honor Society for getting drunk at a party of under aged drinkers!  Many are "high" while attending class.  This in a CONSERVATIVE community!  Things aren't going to hell...we are already there.

[Kingcreek]

I raised 2 girls to ages 25 and 27 now. and I won't claim I did everything right but there is some real good advice here so far.
Mom and I were(are) together on rules, expectations, discipline, communication, etc and it was still tough. The girls and the boyfriends all knew I was a no-nonsense old bastrd and they still tested me.
Best luck to you

[Greg Levy]

Hmm...my daughter turns three in two months, so I guess I had better take some notes on how to 'build the rocket'.

greg