Author Topic: The Root Of All Evil.  (Read 3840 times)

Perd Hapley

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Re: The Root Of All Evil.
« Reply #25 on: March 13, 2007, 05:54:03 PM »
If only they didn't have religion in Iraq, things would be fine there.  Everyone would follow whatever moral code appealed to them ( cough-coughNAMBLAcough) and would settle down into cute little jobs in the hospitality industry.  Pretty much what happened here in America.  We razed all the churches and synagogues and it's been just fine since then.

 Thank unGod we have none of that religion here!  grin
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Perd Hapley

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Re: The Root Of All Evil.
« Reply #26 on: March 13, 2007, 05:57:39 PM »
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The root belief of all evil action is the holding of some other thing in higher regard than another person's life.


Then all your guns are for hunting and target shooting, I take it?  The above is an ultra-pacifist way of thinking.  Isn't it? 
 
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Matthew Carberry

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Re: The Root Of All Evil.
« Reply #27 on: March 13, 2007, 06:39:37 PM »
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The root belief of all evil action is the holding of some other thing in higher regard than another person's life.


Then all your guns are for hunting and target shooting, I take it?  The above is an ultra-pacifist way of thinking.  Isn't it? 
 

That statement doesn't mean that there aren't some things more important, just that it takes discernment as to which.  Which is why laws based on natural rights (versus a particular religious code) are so handy.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: The Root Of All Evil.
« Reply #28 on: March 13, 2007, 07:30:06 PM »
I disagree.  The statement may as well read:

The root belief of all evil action is the holding of ANY other thing in higher regard than another person's life.

Either way, the meaning is that nothing is worth killing for.  Not freedom, not preventing rape or abduction of a child, etc. 
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CAnnoneer

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Re: The Root Of All Evil.
« Reply #29 on: March 13, 2007, 07:40:58 PM »
I agree with fistful. As formulated, the statement is nonsense. Certain situations will obviously violate it.

Matthew Carberry

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Re: The Root Of All Evil.
« Reply #30 on: March 13, 2007, 07:48:05 PM »
Your honor, I respect the opinions of my peers, but I must disagree.

"Some" means "some", not "any" or "all".  The use of the word "some" leaves the "which" open, while the possibility of a number of whichs leaves open an arguable explanation that some whichs are worth dying for while other whichs aren't.  It's the telling of which which is which which is the job of the individual.

 grin
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Perd Hapley

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Re: The Root Of All Evil.
« Reply #31 on: March 13, 2007, 08:00:04 PM »
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"Some" means "some", not "any" or "all". 
In this case, there is no difference.  Here's what Gunny said (which he probably doesn't believe, but it's what he said.)

"The root belief of all evil action is the holding of some other thing in higher regard than another person's life."

Where is there any room in that statement for other things that are a higher priority than the life of another person?  If you hold "some other thing" in higher regard than someone else's life, according to this formula, you are dealing with the root of evil. 

If I say, "You may not eat some other thing besides bread and water," what are your options? 
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Matthew Carberry

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Re: The Root Of All Evil.
« Reply #32 on: March 13, 2007, 08:55:40 PM »
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"Some" means "some", not "any" or "all". 
In this case, there is no difference.  Here's what Gunny said (which he probably doesn't believe, but it's what he said.)

"The root belief of all evil action is the holding of some other thing in higher regard than another person's life."

Where is there any room in that statement for other things that are a higher priority than the life of another person?  If you hold "some other thing" in higher regard than someone else's life, according to this formula, you are dealing with the root of evil. 

If I say, "You may not eat some other thing besides bread and water," what are your options? 

Well, I don't know how to diagram the sentence with this software, and I'm really just being difficult for the hell of it, but...

The sentence says, exactly...

All evil actions are the result of holding something in higher regard than another person's life.

It does not say...

Holding something in higher regard than another person's life always results in evil actions.

Holding can cause evil, but not all holding will cause evil.

It's semantics baby.
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"As for affecting your movement, your Rascal should be able to achieve the the same speeds no matter what holster rig you are wearing."

MattC

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Re: The Root Of All Evil.
« Reply #33 on: March 13, 2007, 09:49:18 PM »
We humans have a few disturbing tendencies, such as thinking diametrically, reflexively perceiving risk and reward only in the short-term, and seeking singular causation.

Lets abuse this metaphor.  There are many types of roots: tap-roots, fibrous roots, aerial roots, and others.  However, no root type is homogeneous and individual any more than a complete plant is.  Many pieces of root system combine to provide nutrients to the rest of the complex system of a plant.  Similarly, there is no single cause of evil, nor is evil a single action.

Moral judgments fall prey to cultural norms.  Some moral systems and parts of others however, survive well across cultures.  The appeal to a deistic source of morality (the typically diametric test of good and evil) is an attempt to cross all cultural boundaries by appealing to something inherently more correct than individual cultures, or humanity as a whole.  If an individual rejects the existence of a deity, then it becomes immoral not to establish a logically derived moral code independent of mysticism.  Now what happens when this moral code conflicts with the dominant religious code?  What happens when the codes of two different religions conflict?  Then people start calling each other evil, since a point of conflict means that someone lives differently than what another defines as good.

I'll offer a compromise.  Individuals exist in an objective world.  (If you disagree with that statement, I would suggest sending me a PM rather than adding a side-argument to this thread.)  With this premise, we hopefully can agree on a set of inter-personal morals that apply to this objective, measurable, testable world.  Private, individual practices can have additional moral standards as desired, such as those arising from religious beliefs.  I think the founding fathers of the US had this in mind when they designed a secular constitution.

BakerMikeRomeo

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Re: The Root Of All Evil.
« Reply #34 on: March 14, 2007, 08:50:02 AM »
I apologize for the seeming ambiguity of my root-of-all-evil statement, I would have qualified it more if I'd been discussing philosophy relating to moral activity (e.g., whether it is moral to kill someone who is trying to kill you), but that's not what I was driving at. I made that statement because I find it terribly annoying when people try to blame evil on something that has nothing to do with it.

Anything can be a motive for an evil act. Like I listed before: money, sex, music, politics, religion, madness, etc., but the motive is not to blame for the evil person's actions. The money in your wallet is not to blame for the mugger holding a knife at you to get it, nor is the larger concept of the love of material possessions to blame for the mugger holding the contents of your wallet becoming his higher than your life. The actor is to blame for holding immoral beliefs and acting on them in an immoral manner. Shifting the blame anywhere else intellectual masturbation (e.g., patting yourself on the back for hating religion because religion is the root of all evil).

I wasn't making a complete statement of my personal philosophy with that statement, I was just pissed off and throwing that line out as a brief jab at the point made by the OP, which I found repugnant (the point, not the OP, who I can only imagine is quite dashing, rugged, and variously otherwise a prooty-good-looking person Cheesy)

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Ron

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Re: The Root Of All Evil.
« Reply #35 on: March 14, 2007, 09:08:58 AM »
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So I may have missed quoted but does it take away from the idea that if the love of money or greed was the problem we wouldn't be having as many problems with religious extemeist from whatever side they were on?
The basis for this post was to point out if you take away the religious violence from most places they would be able to prosper as tourist traps if done correctly.

Underneath the religious pretext for conflict (Sunni vs *expletive deleted*it) is not the differences in their religious practice but who controls the oil. Back to the love of money.

It is the love of money or covetousness that is the root of all evil.

brimic

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Re: The Root Of All Evil.
« Reply #36 on: March 14, 2007, 01:16:39 PM »
Wars aren't fought over religeons or belief systems regardless of whether or not the combatants use it as an excuse or not. War is ALWAYS fought over resources.
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MechAg94

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Re: The Root Of All Evil.
« Reply #37 on: March 14, 2007, 05:27:52 PM »
It is about power.  Resources, money, etc. are all based on desire for power.  Most people just want power over their own lives, some want power over others.
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