Author Topic: HMAS Sydney found at long last?  (Read 1614 times)

K Frame

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HMAS Sydney found at long last?
« on: March 16, 2008, 06:40:02 PM »
Looks like it...


"CANBERRA (Reuters) - Australia's greatest military mystery was solved on Monday with the discovery of a World War Two warship which went down with all 645 crew in a fierce battle with a German vessel more than 66 years ago.

A day after searchers located the wreck of the German merchant raider HSK Kormoran off the West Australian coast, Prime Minister Kevin Rudd said they had also found the Australian battlecruiser HMAS Sydney, sunk by the German ship.

Rudd, flanked by top military commanders, said it was "a historic day for all Australians, and a sad day for all Australians".

"It's very important to understand that this is a tomb and there are 645 Australian sailors entombed there," he said, adding both ships would be declared war graves.

The sinking of the HMAS Sydney II is Australia's greatest naval tragedy, with all hands lost after a 30-minute battle with the German ship on November 19, 1941.

The cruiser was also the biggest ship lost with no survivors from any World War Two nation, historians said, vanishing after sailing ablaze over the horizon at the end of the encounter.

News of the sinking devastated Australians, plunging the nation into a deep wartime gloom, and the mystery of its disappearance had remained a national obsession. Several false discoveries of the ship's wreck have occurred before.

"It's so many emotions that all I can do is cry," said Debra Malycha-Coombs, whose uncle Walter Leslie Curwood was a 23-year-old wire operator on the Sydney. "My mother died over 20 years ago not knowing where he was," she said.

The only witnesses to the battle were the 317 survivors on the Kormoran, which was disguised as a Dutch freighter, the Straat Malakka, when it encountered the Australian ship.

The Sydney was found by a government-funded research ship at a depth of 2,470 metres (8100 feet), about 240 km (150 miles) west of Shark Bay, off the coast of Western Australia, Rudd said.

While a photographic survey would not be carried out until next week, high-resolution sonar images showed the wreck was near intact and a protection order was placed over the ship.

The Sydney was found 22 km (14 miles) from the Kormoran by American wreck hunter David Mearns, who located the British cruiser HMS Hood and Germany's battleship Bismarck in their North Atlantic graves.

Germany's government had also been informed of Kormoran's discovery and the resting place of 80 German crew, Rudd said.

The navy's official version of the battle (www.navy.gov.au), based on incomplete accounts from Kormoran survivors, says the German ship lured the more heavily-armed Sydney in close and then opened fire with torpedoes and six-inch guns.

Before the wreck's discovery, the only trace of the Sydney came from last year's discovery of the remains of an unknown sailor buried on remote Christmas Island after his body washed up in a bullet-riddled life raft in February 1942.

Australia's navy chief Vice-Admiral Russ Shalders said there was no doubt the wreck belonged to Sydney as sonar images perfectly matched the 6,800 tonne cruiser, which had previously distinguished itself in the Mediterranean.

"For 66 years, this nation has wondered where the Sydney was and what occurred to her. We've uncovered the first part of that mystery. The next part of the mystery, of course, is what happened," Shalders said."
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LAK

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Re: HMAS Sydney found at long last?
« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2008, 05:00:29 AM »
Research, technique and equipment has progressed to a point where locating just about any wreck in any water of any depth is becoming possible. Wreck hunting and exploring are some of the more interesting pursuits if you have the wallet - or funding. Looking forward to the results of the exploration and analysis of the wrecks.

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Manedwolf

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Re: HMAS Sydney found at long last?
« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2008, 06:00:26 AM »
They should not do any analysis of it other than an ROV flyby to look at the hull and see why it went down.

It's a war grave. 645 sailors went down with it. Should be treated as a tomb, and left in peace.

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Before the wreck's discovery, the only trace of the Sydney came from last year's discovery of the remains of an unknown sailor buried on remote Christmas Island after his body washed up in a bullet-riddled life raft in February 1942.

Which means the Germans either opened fire on the survivors' rafts, or a 109 came by and strafed them. Charming. Explains the total loss of life.



LAK

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Re: HMAS Sydney found at long last?
« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2008, 06:29:23 AM »

Manedwolf

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Re: HMAS Sydney found at long last?
« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2008, 06:38:48 AM »
I am talking about the fact that there were incidents where liferafts were strafed by an Me-109 flying around, though that would be more common to the European theater. I don't know that the Germans even had any planes down there.

K Frame

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Re: HMAS Sydney found at long last?
« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2008, 06:50:18 AM »
The nearest ME-109s were on the other side of the world.

The Kormoran had no air capability, it was strictly a surface raider, and the Germans had no bases in that area of the world capable of supporting air assets.

The "bullet riddled life raft" could very well have gotten that way from the initial combat.

Wooden life rafts capable of supporting a large number of men were often lashed to rather exposed positions on the ships, either on top of or on the sides of the turrets and forecastles.

Remember, the Kormoran got VERY close to the Sydney before it opened up with its hidden 6" guns and torpedos. It's possible that at some points during the combat the two ships got close enough for machine gun fire. The "bullet riddling" could also have been caused not by machine gun bullets, but by shell splinters.
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Matthew Carberry

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Re: HMAS Sydney found at long last?
« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2008, 07:23:35 AM »
If they got within 1000m or so they could have opened up with machine guns and hit.
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K Frame

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Re: HMAS Sydney found at long last?
« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2008, 07:51:41 AM »
I read the account contained in the link below. It appears that right before the battle broke out the Sydney closed to within one nautical mile.

The smallest armament that the Kormoran is listed as having was 5 20mm anti-aircraft guns, which were full auto but which fired explosive shells.

I really think that the "bullet riddled" raft was actually holed by shell splinters.
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SomeKid

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Re: HMAS Sydney found at long last?
« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2008, 08:46:08 AM »
Any possibility that the Japs may have strafed it? While the Nazis had some barbarians running around blowing their load by offing people, killing people who cannot fight back was much more widespread among the Japs.

K Frame

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Re: HMAS Sydney found at long last?
« Reply #9 on: March 17, 2008, 09:33:32 AM »
Very doubtful.

There were no Japanese land bases in the area of the battle, Japan and Australia were not yet at war, and the known positions of Japan's aircraft carriers were many thousands of miles away.

At the time of the battle, six of Japan's fleet carriers, Akagi, Kaga, Soryu, Hiryu, Zuikaku, and Shokaku, were deep into preparations for the attack on Pearl Harbor.

Japan's other carriers were also tied up preparing for operations against the Dutch East Indies, Singapore, and Hong Kong.

So, at the time this battle happened, the Japanese had a single light aircraft carrier, really a sea plane tender with virtually no offensive capabilities, IIRC, at sea, and it was hopping between the home islands.
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LAK

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Re: HMAS Sydney found at long last?
« Reply #10 on: March 18, 2008, 02:48:13 AM »
The nearest 109 or any other german fighters would have north africa or the mid east. The germans only ever attempted to build one aircraft carrier and it was never finished. The german warships that had any aircraft onboard had seaplanes; unlike the japanese they never had any u-boats capable of carrying aircraft.

The "bullet ridden raft" was probably hopeful product of propaganda. Reminds me of the propaganda movies like that with Humphrey Bogart in the lifeboat about to be rammed by the german u-boat.

I would second the possibility that it was damaged in the firefight - and or a combination of sharks in the water and the wear and tear of rough seas, intensive sunlight etc.

Quote
Of Sydney's total complement of 42 officers and 603 ratings, none survived. The only material evidence recovered from Sydney was an Australian naval type Carley life-float recovered eight days after the action by HMAS Heros and an Australian naval pattern life-belt recovered by HMAS Wyrallah . The Carley float is now preserved in the Australian War Memorial in Canberra .
http://www.navy.gov.au/spc/history/ships/sydney2a.html

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