Author Topic: Check Cashing Fees From Named Banks  (Read 4195 times)

Ned Hamford

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Check Cashing Fees From Named Banks
« on: May 14, 2014, 11:10:16 AM »
Apparently this has been around a few years, but I've just encountered it for the first time.  6-8 Dollars to cash a check when the check issuer has an account, but you do not; policy of Chase and BOA, and I'm sure a ton of others.  I've been keeping my own accounting to a regional credit union; higher employee competence and much less profit driven scheme nonsense. 

I confirmed with the teller a few times. The whole notion of a check being that it is an order to the bank to provide me with the named sum with no verification greater than my being the named party (ID, Sig, and thumbprint at some places).  The check cashing fee seems some pretty blatant extortion; which some bureaucrat decided was ok despite there being centuries of law and a base matter of definition of the very thing and popular understanding ect ect. 

TIL Fact: Apparently, some 20% of the population doesn't possess a bank account; which makes check cashing institutions a huge profit industry feeding on the lower class.  The big banks want in and apparently even Walmart is joining the bandwagon; tho with a far more reason 3 dollar charge... it being reasonable as the checks don't have their gosh darn name on them.

I have contacted my client; who finding his check has been rejected by his institution, is rightfully irate with his bank.  My google-fu has found there is a specific signed page disclaimer about the practice for new bank customers; but existing account holders probably only got a small print buried notice if any at all. 

While I was tempted and contractually enabled to pass along a $50 hassle fee, the client is furious at the bank for their attempted shakedown and immediately drove over the full amount in cash.  Max harm to the appropriate party; and a good example of why my policy against anything but cashier checks should be more firm. 

I'm sure I could have just requested a manager and had the fee waived, but I by and large do believe stupid should hurt.
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castle key

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Re: Check Cashing Fees From Named Banks
« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2014, 11:29:55 AM »
I encountered this a while ago and as I was ranting, I noticed that the bank had a FREE checking account with no fees and no minimum balance.

I promptly opened a new account and used the check I was trying to cash as the opening deposit.

Once that was done, I went to the window and used the starter check to make a withdrawl of all but one penny.

Since this new account also had some other services offered for free, I took advantage of them.

I wrote a letter to the bank president and had the offending branch manager notarize my signature since that was a free service.

The branch manager wanted to know why I wanted this letter notarized and I explained I would take the branch for everything I could. I periodically deposited money into this account using a check from my main bank as I knew the processing fees would drive them crazy. Eventually, they implemented a fee, and that become a big headache. I no longer have an account at this bank.
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vaskidmark

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Re: Check Cashing Fees From Named Banks
« Reply #2 on: May 14, 2014, 12:03:37 PM »
Banks used to be able to make money by lending out the money I left there.  (As opposed to, like in the days when I was a kid, keeping it in the vault in a shoebox with my name on it, like they did with everybody else's money, too.)

Then they found out they could loan out my money, and if I came back to get (some of) my money before the loan was paid back they could "borrow" someone else's money to make up the shortfall in my shoebox.  After a while they started doing that a whole lot - to the point that they had more money out in loans than they did in all the shoeboxes put together.  But because everybody who borrowed money could be trusted to pay it back, there were no problems as long as they could shuffle between shoeboxes if someone who owned the money ever came to get some of it.  (Do any of you remember the days when you were asked why you wanted to take money out of the bank?  It was not just little kids with penny passbooks!  And $diety help you if you were a married woman who did not come armed with a note from your husband saying it was OK for the little lady to take out exactly (and not one penny more!) $x.)

People who had shoeboxes full of money in the bank were more than just OK with that "lending" plan when the banks (under pressure) started sharing the interest they got from the borrowers.  Heck, people started putting money in banks specifically in order to earn interest - often moving from bank to bank to get the highest rate!

Then all of a sudden the banks started paying less and less interest to the folks whose shoeboxes were being farmed out in loans.  They claimed it was because the people who were borrowing could no longer afford to pay the good interest rates.  It has gotten to the point that if you put money in a shoebox in a bank it is actually worth less later on than if you just went ahead and spent it now.  So folks stopped putting their money in shoeboxes in banks, and thus banks stopped being able to collect interest on loans because they had no money to loan.  But in order to stay in business (apparently banks do other stuff than keeping your money in a shoebox with your name on it) they needed to make money to pay the stockholders and if there was anything left over to pay the bills.  So they started charging "fees" for everything but letting you come inside.  (And they are probably thinking about how they could get away with that!)

Which is why my Daddy lets me keep my money in a shoebox with my name on it in the bottom of his gun safe, where my money is just as safe as his guns are.

The above story was told to me by a young child who is in the "academically gifted" program at her elementary school, after the class had finished a session on economics.  I do not see why anybody needs to be "gifted" to understand that.

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41magsnub

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Re: Check Cashing Fees From Named Banks
« Reply #3 on: May 14, 2014, 12:19:19 PM »
I'm just going to go ahead and ask the stupid question.

Why were you going to the person's bank to cash a check instead of just depositing it in your account or business account?

dogmush

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Re: Check Cashing Fees From Named Banks
« Reply #4 on: May 14, 2014, 12:20:59 PM »
What are these "checks" of which you speak? Are they like analog EBT?


:-D

K Frame

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Re: Check Cashing Fees From Named Banks
« Reply #5 on: May 14, 2014, 12:53:02 PM »
I'm just going to go ahead and ask the stupid question.

Why were you going to the person's bank to cash a check instead of just depositing it in your account or business account?


Gotta wonder that myself.
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Nick1911

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Re: Check Cashing Fees From Named Banks
« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2014, 12:54:55 PM »
I'm just going to go ahead and ask the stupid question.

Why were you going to the person's bank to cash a check instead of just depositing it in your account or business account?

I presume it's based on Ned's factoid:
Quote
TIL Fact: Apparently, some 20% of the population doesn't possess a bank account

K Frame

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Re: Check Cashing Fees From Named Banks
« Reply #7 on: May 14, 2014, 01:02:34 PM »
I presume it's based on Ned's factoid:


Fail...

Per Ned: " I've been keeping my own accounting to a regional credit union"
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Check Cashing Fees From Named Banks
« Reply #8 on: May 14, 2014, 01:34:59 PM »
many of the self employed, and almost all of the smart self employed, do it to reduce the paper trail for the gov.  the banks fees on a small check are higher that a storefront check cashing place. the local banks hate to see me coming.  especially pnc. you can always get them to waive the fee if you bitch.
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Scout26

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Re: Check Cashing Fees From Named Banks
« Reply #9 on: May 14, 2014, 01:43:37 PM »
I ran into this a year or so back with BoA.  (Is it wrong that I cheer when they get robbed?)

Got a check from the County for having served as an election judge.  Check from the County drawn on their BoA account.  Since I knew I'd be going right by one on the way to Aldi, I figured I'd cash the check and use the cash to buy groceries rather then depositing the check into my bank and then using the debit card.

$5 fee to cash their check.  I could understand if it was not drawn on BoA and if I wasn't a customer.  But the only DQ-ing factor was me not being their customer.

Bastages, the lot of them.  Aaron Burr had the right idea.

 
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makattak

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Re: Check Cashing Fees From Named Banks
« Reply #10 on: May 14, 2014, 02:32:46 PM »
Bastages, the lot of them.  Aaron Burr had the right idea.

Shoot them in the gut?

(Yes, I am aware of his opinions on banking.)
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MechAg94

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Re: Check Cashing Fees From Named Banks
« Reply #11 on: May 14, 2014, 03:28:37 PM »
I imagine the banks are so big with such a rigid system they handle all the checks the same at the local level.
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Scout26

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Re: Check Cashing Fees From Named Banks
« Reply #12 on: May 14, 2014, 03:50:17 PM »
I imagine the banks are so big with such a rigid system they handle all the checks the same at the local level.

No, they are doing to create another revenue stream.  They get sent to a regional or center location where they are scanned and the scanned images sent to the drawing bank.   No more Million Air flying checks from one Fed Bank to another in the middle of the night.
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Put our backs to the north wind.
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Boomhauer

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Re: Check Cashing Fees From Named Banks
« Reply #13 on: May 14, 2014, 03:52:45 PM »
BOA, Wells Fargo, and the other huge banks are the ones that always seem like complete dicks about everything. Mom and Dad wrote me a check for something like $50 and they have Wells Fargo. I bank with Suntrust. As I didn't have a local branch available for my bank I swung by the local Wells Fargo. They first didn't want to cash the check at all, then they wanted to charge me a $5 fee to do so. I went and got one of the loan officers who works there and knows my parents well to get them to cash it without a charge.

I'd prefer to go with a credit union or a small bank myself, but being that I am a rather wandering person it's a lot easier to do business with a bank that is more widespread. I would like to bank with a nationwide bank but due to their assholiness I settled for a regional bank instead.



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K Frame

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Re: Check Cashing Fees From Named Banks
« Reply #14 on: May 14, 2014, 04:06:41 PM »
Here in DC on WTOP radio we have a commentator named Chris Core, who has a segment called Core Values.

Today he was bitching about this very subject. It's not on their website yet...
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KD5NRH

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Re: Check Cashing Fees From Named Banks
« Reply #15 on: May 14, 2014, 04:28:58 PM »
Why were you going to the person's bank to cash a check instead of just depositing it in your account or business account?

I do it because my bank is a block from the one most of the checks I get are drawn on, including my paychecks.  5 minutes extra, and I'm depositing cash to my account for immediate availability, with no risk of a sudden hold if something goes wrong with the check, and I can just pocket whatever cash I need before the deposit, rather than deposit a check and then withdraw what I need for the next day or two.  It also eliminates checking the balance to make sure the last check has finally cleared before paying a stack of bills or any other large outflow situation.

MikeB

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Re: Check Cashing Fees From Named Banks
« Reply #16 on: May 14, 2014, 05:19:44 PM »
I'm just going to go ahead and ask the stupid question.

Why were you going to the person's bank to cash a check instead of just depositing it in your account or business account?

When I was a self employed consultant I would sometimes cash checks at the customers bank to make sure they wouldn't bounce. I started doing this after paying out a couple hundred in fees after a customers check bounced causing me to bounce checks I had written.

I don't personally think these fees are legal as the check is supposed to be legally valid for the amount written for but good luck getting any government employee or politician to do anything about it. I complained to state regulatory agencies and local state reps when this started 15 years ago or so.

AmbulanceDriver

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Re: Check Cashing Fees From Named Banks
« Reply #17 on: May 14, 2014, 05:22:21 PM »
I don't even remember what the hell it was they did to piss me off, but Bank of America pissed me off one time.   I only had one account there, a fee-free checking account I opened when I turned 18.  This was back when "fee-free" actually meant something.  

Well I withdrew everything but $0.12 from that account.   For 8 years, they sent me a statement for that checking account.  Every month.  Showing that $0.12 balance.

96-ish months. At an average cost in postage of $0.29 (I kept track of it, because it was just so damned entertaining). Per month.  Plus the cost of paper, envelope, etc.  Call it $0.75 per month.

Call it $75.  Small pittance, but I enjoyed greatly costing that bank money every month for 8 years.  Eventually, they closed the account for inactivity or some such.  

And mailed me a check for $0.12.









Yes, I drove to the closest BoA branch and cashed the check.   >:D
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KD5NRH

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Re: Check Cashing Fees From Named Banks
« Reply #18 on: May 14, 2014, 06:02:08 PM »
I don't personally think these fees are legal as the check is supposed to be legally valid for the amount written for but good luck getting any government employee or politician to do anything about it. I complained to state regulatory agencies and local state reps when this started 15 years ago or so.

IIRC, at least with paychecks, it's actionable against the issuer if their bank charges a cashing fee.  Not sure how that applies to any other sort of check, but I had one employer that, if you told them you'd be cashing it at their bank, would cut the check for $3 over to cover the fee.  Of course, that $3 would come out of your next check if they saw the cancelled check showing you cashed or deposited it anywhere else.

Ned Hamford

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Re: Check Cashing Fees From Named Banks
« Reply #19 on: May 14, 2014, 06:17:24 PM »
The Chase bank is literally across the street from my own bank and I figured for that small walk I could make sure the check didn't bounce and enjoy that immediacy of resolution.  I do require bank checks; but the client showed up with his personal check book instead; and being a prior client with a fair likelihood at being a continuous revenue stream, I went ahead and took it with a 'just this once.'   
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vaskidmark

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Re: Check Cashing Fees From Named Banks
« Reply #20 on: May 14, 2014, 07:23:31 PM »
Several times I have gone to the bank the check was drawn on because I had concerns about the financial viability of the person (or more often the entity) issuing the check.  Depositing the check in my bank and having it bounce causes a cascade of fees and embarassments for my account.  I'd much rather have their bank tell me there are insufficient funds to cash the check.

(Yes, it happened a few times with checks from a municipality.  Imagine their surprize when I laid a copy of the check, stamped NSF by their bank, on the Treasurer's desk demanding cash now or a warrant served later that afternoon.)

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geronimotwo

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Re: Check Cashing Fees From Named Banks
« Reply #21 on: May 15, 2014, 09:41:35 AM »
i was working two jobs, and my bank (first union) wanted to charge me fees for making to many deposits.   goodbye to first union........the sad part is that i don't remember the bank i switched to, only the one that ticked me off... :lol:
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K Frame

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Re: Check Cashing Fees From Named Banks
« Reply #22 on: May 15, 2014, 11:24:43 AM »
"I don't personally think these fees are legal as the check is supposed to be legally valid for the amount written for..."

Yes, they are legal.

I BELIEVE that they, and other service fees, were allowed under the 1992 updates to the Community Reinvestment Act.

The Office of the Comptroller of the Currency agrees that the fees are authorized under law: http://www.occ.gov/static/interpretations-and-precedents/may02/int933.pdf

To put it VERY bluntly, though, there is absolutely no law that requires a bank to cash a check.

For anyone.

Not even their own customer.

Nor is there a law regulating the amount of fee that they can charge a non customer.
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Ned Hamford

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Re: Check Cashing Fees From Named Banks
« Reply #23 on: May 15, 2014, 11:39:08 AM »
I took banking law at law school; one of favorite profs. This man, who studied that area of law his entire life was quite open in his opinion of the current state of affairs. Near utter defeat; and puzzlement as to why the school still had the class. We have explicitly rejected the common law and enacted governing statutes and regulatory bodies. Statutes that conflict, don't understand the concepts and terms they use, and regulators who in best light are idiots.
So yah. It is still called a check; but I guess that word has changed.
Worked for centuries, but our gov has stepped in to protect us and remove the obligation of the bank to cash their own checks.
Especially if you are an unsafe person.
Funny how it all seems to make sense again if you assume some less than savory motivations.  [tinfoil]
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