Author Topic: Homeless Vets=National Disgrace  (Read 2120 times)

Grandpa Shooter

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Homeless Vets=National Disgrace
« on: July 01, 2008, 06:15:40 AM »
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/08/us/08vets.html?partner=rssnyt&emc=rssr

I was reading the news last night and one of the stories was about the 150,000 homeless vets.  I looked it up this morning and found that the estimate is that one quarter (1 in 4) of the homeless population are veterans.  Since only 11% of the adult population are veterans that statistic is alarming and embarassing at the same time. 

Another article deals with the issue of homeless women vets.  Just type in homeless veterans and you can pull up the same articles.  It was bad before, knowing how many of my fellow veterans of the Vietnam era were on the streets, now it is happening all over again with Iraq and Afghanistan.  We are building another generation  of walking wounded which could easily exceed the numbers of the Vietnam era.

In my opinion it is a national disgrace. 

nico

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Re: Homeless Vets=National Disgrace
« Reply #1 on: July 01, 2008, 06:21:07 AM »
Part of the problem is a lot of them have serious psychological problems that contribute to their situation.  Short of forcing them to undergo treatment, I'm not sure how to solve the problem.  Obviously, there should be better screening for those types of problems after combat, but that won't help the people already out there.

Iain

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Re: Homeless Vets=National Disgrace
« Reply #2 on: July 01, 2008, 06:47:49 AM »
It's been and is a problem here too. Veterans groups/orgs like SSAFA talk a good deal about alcohol use. I went to one of their local meetings some time ago as I work in a related area, and people were sat around discussing whether alcohol problems amongst veterans were leading to psychological issues or vice versa. Few seemed to see that they may well have fed each other directly and from a very early stage, before someone could be classified as alcoholic or in need of psychological help. Stigma of substance abuse I guess.
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ilbob

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Re: Homeless Vets=National Disgrace
« Reply #3 on: July 01, 2008, 07:17:45 AM »
One of the major issues with the whole homeless problem is even trying to define the term, and doing some kind of census. Its like the so called crisis in health insurance. A few activists trying to make political hay have created statistics out of thin air that vastly overstate the problem, and understate the issue of personal irresponsibility in the mix.

Most people who are "homeless" have major drug, alcohol, or psychological issues that are their real problem. Refusing to deal with the true problem that caused the "homelessness" in the first place because it is not PC is not an answer.

I don't think it matters much if they are veterans or not. The root causes of the problem have to be dealt with and we refuse to do so. In many respects, veterans, especially combat veterans, have some of the best options for dealing with their problems head on. The VA medical system is pretty adept at dealing with veterans' medical issues and VA medical facilities are widely available.

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Firethorn

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Re: Homeless Vets=National Disgrace
« Reply #4 on: July 01, 2008, 08:54:44 AM »
One of the major issues with the whole homeless problem is even trying to define the term, and doing some kind of census. Its like the so called crisis in health insurance. A few activists trying to make political hay have created statistics out of thin air that vastly overstate the problem, and understate the issue of personal irresponsibility in the mix.

One of the problems I saw was that many of the statistics merely asked people whether they were former military or not - with no checking of military records to verify.  Not even a sampling.  Given what I've heard about homeless playing up the veteran angle for more donations, I think that a fair number might lie.

Quote
Most people who are "homeless" have major drug, alcohol, or psychological issues that are their real problem. Refusing to deal with the true problem that caused the "homelessness" in the first place because it is not PC is not an answer.

Indeed - I've heard of nearly empty shelters that are empty because they have a no-drug policy, so the homeless simply don't go there unless it's really bad.

Quote
I don't think it matters much if they are veterans or not. The root causes of the problem have to be dealt with and we refuse to do so. In many respects, veterans, especially combat veterans, have some of the best options for dealing with their problems head on. The VA medical system is pretty adept at dealing with veterans' medical issues and VA medical facilities are widely available.

It doesn't matter in the sense of treating the homeless problem.  It does matter in the sense of checking and verifying how we treat our military members and veterans.  Are we properly preparing them for life outside of the military - them ending up homeless at double the civilian rate would indicate a problem.

Now, the 25% of homeless are veterans vs an 11% overall rate - I'd want to control for some factors first.  For example - Men still dominate the military, there are relatively few female veterans.  I know that most homeless* are men.  51% are single men according to one random survey.  17% are single women.  How that jives with the statistics that 39% of the population are under 18 are children, I'm not sure.  33% are families with children.  By the way, it's possible to be considered 'homeless' in some studies even if you're staying regularly with family.

Hmmm....   I'm pretty sure that those factors wouldn't be able to make up a 14% gap.  Ouch.

One theory - the military is willing to take just about anybody with a HS diploma, and often even without that.  Therefore, it becomes a haven at least for 4 or so years, for those that 'can't make it'.  Since they can't cut it even in the military and are either kicked out or just have re-enlistment denied.  They then loose that guarenteed paycheck and housing, and sooner or later end up homeless.

*The gap is closer, but still exists.

Gowen

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Re: Homeless Vets=National Disgrace
« Reply #5 on: July 01, 2008, 11:25:27 AM »
I cannot find the report, but many of these so called "homeless Vietnam Vets," are not vets at all.  They did a study and found the most of them only claim to be vets to play on people's sympathy.  The overwhelming majority of Vietnam vets were found to be productive citizens, with homes and families. 

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Balog

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Re: Homeless Vets=National Disgrace
« Reply #6 on: July 01, 2008, 11:55:06 AM »
1. There are not nearly as many homeless people as their "advocates" like to claim.

2. Among the homeless, not nearly as many of them are vets as claim to be.

3. Alchohol abuse is just about the most effective way to self-medicate for ptsd type problems. I know when I first got back from Iraq what little sleep I got was a result of drinking.
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mtnbkr

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Re: Homeless Vets=National Disgrace
« Reply #7 on: July 01, 2008, 12:45:25 PM »
There was an article some time ago regarding homeless scammers hanging out around the Vietnam Memorial Wall in DC claiming to be vets and such.

Chris

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Re: Homeless Vets=National Disgrace
« Reply #8 on: July 01, 2008, 02:21:42 PM »
Well, it must be true - just about every guy standing on the corner with a cardboard sign claims he is a vet  rolleyes
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Grandpa Shooter

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Re: Homeless Vets=National Disgrace
« Reply #9 on: July 01, 2008, 03:33:58 PM »
It doesn't happen overnight.  The effects of PTSD are insidious (according to Websters Ninth a: having a gradual and cumulative effect b: developing so gradually as to be well established before becoming apparent.)  In my case it was 12 years before it finally hit home.  Some of these people will live successfully despite the effects, and some will fall prey to it.  Yes there may well be an alcohol abuse component, as well as drug use.  There will also be a higher than statistically normal rate of transiency, divorce, domestic violence, anger issues, job loss, among many other long term effects.  It is not a matter to be brushed off, trivialized, or neglected.  If we expect these people to serve, then we damn well ought to be taking better care of them when they come home.



WASHINGTON, Nov. 7, 2000  More than 400 veterans of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars have turned up homeless, and the Veterans Affairs Department and aid groups say they are bracing for a new surge in homeless veterans in the years ahead.
 
Brendan Smialowski for The New York Times
 
Experts who work with veterans say it often takes several years after leaving military service for veterans accumulating problems to push them into the streets. But some aid workers say the Iraq and Afghanistan veterans appear to be turning up sooner than the Vietnam veterans did.

Were beginning to see, across the country, the first trickle of this generation of warriors in homeless shelters, said Phil Landis, chairman of Veterans Village of San Diego, a residence and counseling center. But we anticipate that its going to be a tsunami.

With more women serving in combat zones, the current wars are already resulting in a higher share of homeless women as well. They have an added risk factor: roughly 40 percent of the hundreds of homeless female veterans of recent wars have said they were sexually assaulted by American soldiers while in the military, officials said.

Sexual abuse is a risk factor for homelessness, Pete Dougherty, the V.A.s director of homeless programs, said.

Special traits of the current wars may contribute to homelessness, including high rates of post-traumatic stress disorder, or PTSD, and traumatic brain injury, which can cause unstable behavior and substance abuse, and the long and repeated tours of duty, which can make the reintegration into families and work all the harder.

Frederick Johnson, 37, an Army reservist, slept in abandoned houses shortly after returning to Chester, Pa., from a year in Iraq, where he experienced daily mortar attacks and saw mangled bodies of soldiers and children. He started using crack cocaine and drinking, burning through $6,000 in savings.

I cut myself off from my family and went from being a pleasant guy to wanting to rip your head off if you looked at me wrong, Mr. Johnson said.

On the street for a year, he finally checked in at a V.A. clinic in Maryland and has struggled with PTSD, depression, and drug and alcohol abuse. The V.A. has provided temporary housing as he starts a new job.

Tracy Jones of the Compass Center, a Seattle agency that has seen a handful of new homeless each month, said she was surprised by the quickness in which Iraqi Freedom veterans are becoming homeless compared with the Vietnam era. The availability of meth and crack could lead addicts into rapid downhill spirals, Ms. Jones said.

Poverty and high housing costs also contribute. The National Alliance to End Homelessness in Washington will release a report on Thursday saying that among one million veterans who served after the Sept. 11 attacks, 72,000 are paying more than half their incomes for rent, leaving them highly vulnerable.

Mr. Dougherty of the V.A. said outreach officers, who visit shelters, soup kitchens and parks, had located about 1,500 returnees from Iraq or Afghanistan who seemed at high risk, though many had jobs. More than 400 have entered agency-supported residential programs around the country. No one knows how many others have not made contact with aid agencies.

More than 11 percent of the newly homeless veterans are women, Mr. Dougherty said, compared with 4 percent enrolled in such programs over all.

Veterans have long accounted for a high share of the nations homeless. Although they make up 11 percent of the adult population, they make up 26 percent of the homeless on any given day, the National Alliance report calculated.

According to the V.A., some 196,000 veterans of all ages were homeless on any given night in 2006. That represents a decline from about 250,000 a decade back, Mr. Dougherty said, as housing and medical programs grew and older veterans died.

The most troubling face of homelessness has been the chronic cases, those who live in the streets or shelters for more than year. Some 44,000 to 64,000 veterans fit that category, according to the National Alliance study.

On Wednesday, the Bush administration announced what it described as remarkable progress for the chronic homeless. Alphonso R. Jackson, the secretary of housing and urban development, said a new policy of bringing the long-term homeless directly into housing, backed by supporting services, had put more than 20,000, or about 12 percent, into permanent or transitional homes.

Veterans have been among the beneficiaries, but Mary Cunningham, director of the research institute of the National Alliance and chief author of their report, said the share of supported housing marked for veterans was low.

A collaborative program of the Department of Housing and Urban Development and the V.A. has developed 1,780 such units. The National Alliance said the number needed to grow by 25,000.

Mr. Dougherty described the large and growing efforts the V.A. was making to prevent homelessness including offering two years of free medical care and identifying psychological and substance abuse problems early.

One obstacle is that many veterans wait too long to seek help. I had that pride thing going on, Im a soldier, I should be better than this, Mr. Johnson said.

Kent Richardson, 49, who was in the Army from 1976 to 1992 and has flashbacks from the gulf war, said, when you get out you feel disconnected and alone.

Mr. Richardson said it took him two years to find a job after leaving the Army. Then he became an alcoholic. He now stays at the Southeast Veterans Service Center in Washington, awaiting permanent subsidized housing.

Joe Williams, 53, spent 16 years in the Army and the Navy, including a deeply upsetting assignment in the mortuary at Dover Air Force Base in Delaware, where the dead from the gulf war were taken for autopsies.

For the past three years Mr. Williams has lived in a bunk bed in a Washington shelter. He was laid off, his car and house were repossessed, and his wife left him. He moved to Georgia, where he lost another job.

Broke and depressed, he walked from Georgia to a V.A. hospital in the Washington area, where schizophrenia was diagnosed. Now, after three years of medication and therapy, he feels ready to start looking for work.

I have a mission Ive got to accomplish, Mr. Williams said.

Sean D. Hamill contributed reporting from Pittsburgh, Michael Parrish from Los Angeles and J. Michael Kennedy from Seattle.

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Balog

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Re: Homeless Vets=National Disgrace
« Reply #10 on: July 01, 2008, 07:52:27 PM »
There's no doubt that seeing combat is an increased risk factor for being homeless. No different than young girls who're sexually abused being grossly over represented in the stripper/hooker professions. And I agree our country has a moral obligation to do more for vets. But at some point homeless are that way because they choose to be, and unless (God forbid) the VA starts mass committing ptsd vets they'll always be statistically over represented in homeless populations. Sad but true.
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coppertales

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Re: Homeless Vets=National Disgrace
« Reply #11 on: July 02, 2008, 07:07:11 AM »
Burnt out druggies saying they are vets to get sympathy aka money from liberals.  There is a guy that claims to be a Vietnam vet that hangs out around the Vietnamese cafe I eat at.  The owner of the cafe gives him food.  Why I ask?  She says he is a Vietnam vet and deserves it.  I reply "he is only 30 years old", when did the war in Vietnam end?  She got mad at me.  He does not hit me up for change any more.

There are some 9 million people that claim to be Vietnam vets.  Only around 3 million actually served in Vietnam.  I am all the time busting my wife's cousin's husband because he claims to be a Vietnam vet.  He never left the country....chris3