Propane may hold key to schools' high fuel prices

[Desertdog]

Another pie in the sky idea.  I agree that it is a beautiful motor fuel, but there is a more limited supply than gasoline.  If they change over the mechanics will have to learn the new fuel systems, and fueling is not as simple as gas or diesel.
If many vehicles change over the price of propane will rise for motor fuel and for home heating.


Propane may hold key to schools' high fuel prices
Pete Chagnon - OneNewsNow - 8/2/2008 4:10:00 AM
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Education/Default.aspx?id=201094

With diesel prices in record territory, many schools are desperately seeking ways to deal with their exploding transportation budgets. One solution being offered is propane-powered buses.

Roy Willis, president and CEO of the Propane Education & Research Council, says schools that switch to propane-powered buses will see huge savings in their transportation budgets. He explains that a federal tax incentive used to promote the use of alternative fuels provides a 50-cent-per-gallon relief when using propane. On top of that, he states that just switching from diesel to propane will save schools roughly 50 percent in fuel costs, and 40 percent if switching from gasoline to propane.
 
But how does one switch to propane? According to Willis, some school districts opt for retrofitting buses, while others buy new buses. "There are some retrofits available to them and many districts have opted for those," he said, but "we're finding that more and more school districts prefer to buy new vehicles because they come with a manufacturer's warranty and service guarantees, which some conversions don't offer."
 
According to Willis, school districts that are concerned about the cost of switching their bus fleet to propane can get help from the federal government. He says there are several federal and state incentive programs that cover the majority of the costs in retrofitting buses and installing propane fueling pumps on school grounds.
 
Aside from the monetary benefits, Willis states that propane is mostly manufactured within the United States -- which, he notes, provides a stable market for the fuel. And research is also ongoing to find renewable ways to produce the alternative fuel.
 
Propane was discovered in 1910 by a Pennsylvania chemist and has been used since then as an alternative fuel source. Currently more than a half-million vehicles and forklifts in the U.S. operate using propane.

[never_retreat]

Ya I see a problem.
Propane and CNG can be run on a spark fired engine, not a diesel (compression engine)
So they need to change out the whole engine. Theres a good cost savings.
Plus school vehicles are exempt from paying the road taxes on the fuel anyway. So their spending less than we are.
The money would be more well spent on buying one of these self contained bio-diesel production machines.
Then they could put the product right into there existing fleet of diesel engine equipped buses.

[wmenorr67]

There are some districts that already using CNG and/or propane.  Fleet use is the perfect place for those types of fuel because they are usually around town so fueling isn't a problem.  Be even more effective if police depts, fire depts and other emergency service vehicles used those fuels.

[Gewehr98]

Propane and CNG can be run on a spark fired engine, not a diesel (compression engine)

Say what?

GE is currently running natural gas fueled diesel cycle locomotives (as seen on their parody commercials of the railroad Golden Spike event), and EMD (GM) is doing the same.

Union Pacific's been developing LNG locomotives for some time now, hitting the concept hard beginning in 1993. Burlington Northern (now BNSF) also followed suit, as seen in the link below.

There's no reason to believe that the LNG injection systems for those particular big diesels can't be scaled down to fit highway applications. It's just a matter of injecting the fuel, be it diesel, vegetable oil, liquified Soylent Green, or LNG at the right time during the compression stroke.  That ain't a big problem.  Having a big tank of proprane or natural gas on a school bus might raise the eyebrows of the NHTSA, though.

IOW, never say "never".    

http://www.energyconversions.com/locoemis.htm

On a side note, I've been talking to my fellow B-52 pals at Minot, and they're working to source a bid to convert the big coal seams in that neck of the woods to jet fuel, thereby powering the BUFFS and KC-135s there.  A coal-fired B-52 that was originally built between 1958-1962 is just about perfect!