Author Topic: Water Pump Troubleshooting  (Read 1850 times)

Polishrifleman

  • friend
  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 172
Water Pump Troubleshooting
« on: September 09, 2008, 08:16:02 PM »
So I have a 2004 Suburban 3/4 ton 6ltr that I hunt with pull the boat etc...

It has started to over heat.

1) Checked coolant levels
2) Checked water pump belt
3) Replaced Thermostat (old one opened when immersed in hot water)

Still overheating.
Small percentage chance radiator is clogged.
When engine is overheating and heat is cranked in the car no hot air so I assume no flow through heater coil.

Is there a way to trouble shoot the water pump?

Thanks

K Frame

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 44,638
  • I Am Inimical
Re: Water Pump Troubleshooting
« Reply #1 on: September 09, 2008, 08:39:02 PM »
Could be a plugged radiator.

Could also be a broken vane, or disintegrating vanes, on the pump.

No real way I know to diagnose the water pump without removing it.
Carbon Monoxide, sucking the life out of idiots, 'tards, and fools since man tamed fire.

French G.

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 10,202
  • ohhh sparkles!
Re: Water Pump Troubleshooting
« Reply #2 on: September 09, 2008, 08:55:40 PM »
First, any coolant leakage at the pump? Pump problems will often also fail the seal giving you a weep at the weep hole. 

  There is a messy way to check your pump.  Don't put antifreeze into the groundwater BTW. Pull the top hose on the radiator. Start the truck. If water gushes out, it's pumping. There are plenty of cheap cures too if it is the radiator core plugged, dumping in a jar or two of phosphoric acid AKA naval jelly rust remover can work wonders, put it in a straight water filled radiator and run it for a while. Pull the top hose and flush through the radiator fill cap with a garden hose. All manner of grey scale ought to come out.

Chevy water pumps are pretty solid, I'm thinking radiator core assuming you did not install the thermostat backwards.
AKA Navy Joe   

I'm so contrarian that I didn't respond to the thread.

mfree

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,637
Re: Water Pump Troubleshooting
« Reply #3 on: September 10, 2008, 03:16:30 AM »
I think your thermostat is in backwards, personally.

Rudy Kohn

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 141
Re: Water Pump Troubleshooting
« Reply #4 on: September 10, 2008, 04:23:32 AM »
Assuming you haven't put the thermostat in backwards, is it possible that it's just air in the system?  Have you tried bleeding air out of the system?  A big air pocket could cause overheating, especially after you replace the thermostat.

Also, this is a problem I've had a couple of times with older cars, so it might not apply to you:  does your coolant overflow tank have a MAX line?  If you fill the overflow tank much over that line, you might end up with coolant unnecessarily going into the overflow tank, resulting in loss from the engine.  I've had problems with overheat twice in two cars ('86 and '87) that I traced back to this.  Make sure your overflow tank isn't too full, if it has a MAX line.

Definitely check the weep hole on your water pump.  It should have one.  You can also typically feel water flowing through the system if you squeeze the hoses.

Somehow I doubt the radiator is plugged on a four year old car.  Unless you've been filling it with a 50/50 mix of antifreeze and mineral water, you should not have a plugged radiator after only four years, but I guess anything is possible.

K Frame

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 44,638
  • I Am Inimical
Re: Water Pump Troubleshooting
« Reply #5 on: September 10, 2008, 05:03:51 AM »
"mineral water"

Which does your car like?

Mine seems to prefer Evian...  laugh
Carbon Monoxide, sucking the life out of idiots, 'tards, and fools since man tamed fire.

French G.

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 10,202
  • ohhh sparkles!
Re: Water Pump Troubleshooting
« Reply #6 on: September 10, 2008, 05:30:28 AM »
Crap antifreeze and driving conditions can kill an aluminum core radiator quick. The overflow tank being too ful and siphoning is a problem but not in this instance, no heat out of the heater means one of a few things. Plugged heater core, plugged radiator, no water pump, or no water in the engine at all which will give plenty of other signs. When it overheats is the top hose to the radiator hard as a rock or soft? Hard as a rock, no flow through the radiator core. Soft, obstruction at the thermostat. I assume your fan(electric?) is working fine, not really relevant since you'd have plenty of heat out of the heater if it wasn't.
AKA Navy Joe   

I'm so contrarian that I didn't respond to the thread.

Tuco

  • Fastest non-sequitur in the West.
  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3,131
  • If you miss you had better miss very well
Re: Water Pump Troubleshooting
« Reply #7 on: September 10, 2008, 05:56:57 AM »
edit - what french G said.

Waterpumps usually fail at the bearing.  Coolant weepage will show around the shaft and through any weep holes.

Check waterpump shaft bearing (on cold engine) as follows:
Remove Belt;
Grab waterpump pulley;
Wiggle (the pulley!!).

Any side to side play (lateral movement) of the shaft or pulley is a sign that the bearing is out or on its way.  There may be additional coolant leakage at the limits of movement.
 
In and out play (axial to the shaft)  is to be expected (up to 1/25 of an inch or so).


Check heater core -
Unhook hoses going into firewall.
Put garden hose on one spigot or hose going into the cabin. 
Point the other hose (or add a length of hose to the spigot to avoid spraying yourself with coolant and sediment) to a proper receptacle.

If there is good flow, heater core is okay.
If you are very obsessive, feel free to flush core with distilled water.
Dispose of antifreeze and rinse water properly.

The same can be done with the radiator.  Remove upper and lower hoses, open any drain cocks.
Put a wash tub at the lower opening.
Stick the garden hose in the top hose port (with a wet rag around the garden hose to seal it - you want all the pressure down through the radiator).  Check your flow - it should be unrestricted.

Dispose of antifreeze and rinse water properly.

I agree with the probability of an air  bubble or backwards thermostat.  Before proceeding, it may be appropriate to confirm the installation (and heck, for 8 bucks, buy a new 'stat)

This is how I burb my cooling system.

Remove fill cap on cold radiator.
Start truck.
Have a bottle of antifreeze (mixed 50-50 with distilled water)
Turn on all the heaters
Warm up to operating temperature
Pull truck up on ramps (I've done this on a bumper stop in a parking lot, or a street curb) - the point is to elevate the front of the vehicle a bit.  Set emergency brake (and chock wheels)
Climb up on front bumper and reach in and squeeze all of the hoses.  Grab a hose with a gloved hand (motor is running and hot) and squeeze the hoses quickly and forcefully.  The goal is to force a wall of water through the system and dislodge any clinging bubbles.  Do this repeatedly.  All hoses (heater hoses, upper and lower radiator hoses).

Hot coolant may splash out of the filler hole, this is okay.  Keep the radiator filled to the top.  Keep squeezing and filling, filling and squeezing.

Climb in the cab and see if the heat is coming out.  Remember, if the t'stat is stuck closed, no heat will come out, and the heater hoses will not be as hot as the other hoses.

Good Luck.
7-11 was a part time job.

Parker Dean

  • friend
  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 405
Re: Water Pump Troubleshooting
« Reply #8 on: September 10, 2008, 06:11:24 AM »
The no-heat from the heater concern suggests an air pocket and modern cooling systems are notoriously hard to purge. However in order to get an air pocket the system would have had to be very low, or have been drained, and refilled. Since that was not mentioned I'll have to assume that it never occurred.

No-heat conditions can also be caused by restricted heater cores and if the heater core is restricted then it isn't a big leap to think that the radiator may also be restricted. The original coolant fill on this vehicle would have been Dexcool which is well known to cause problems.

So, barring any reason for an air pocket to be there, I'm betting on clogged radiator

Rudy Kohn

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 141
Re: Water Pump Troubleshooting
« Reply #9 on: September 10, 2008, 04:32:04 PM »
I figured replacing the thermostat would require enough drain/refill to create a sizeable air pocket.

Two Cold Soakers and French G. both have really good input--definitely check hoses for flow, and water pump for pulley play/water weeping.  But the "no-heat" thing just screams air pocket to me.  Two Cold Soakers's instructions for burping the system are exactly what I've done before, with good results.  The trick is to take your time.  Also, when the car is warm and the cap is off, try gradually revving the engine a bit, that can help to push air around and out, but if you try to rev too suddenly, it will just push coolant out.

Anyway, I hope the stuff up till here allows the OP to fix the problem.  Let us know what you find out.

Polishrifleman

  • friend
  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 172
Re: Water Pump Troubleshooting
« Reply #10 on: September 10, 2008, 06:41:25 PM »
T-Stat in correct  CHECK
Big Air Pocket Probably the culprit.  Did the add squeeze thing last night several times and went to bed with the resivoir full truck sat out on incline all night and day.  Added more fluid and water tonight started idled for a while, heat came out vents, drove around for about 30 minutes gauge never went above 200 so I am assuming that air just had to work its way out of the system.

Thanks for all the help!!!!!!