I could use some car advice, please...

[Preacherman]

OK, let me tell you my tale of woe, and then you can chime in with suggestions.

Back in March this year, I traded my pickup truck for a 2000 Pontiac Montana minivan.  The reasons for getting this vehicle were twofold:

1.  It was about half as much in monthly payments as my pickup truck, and since I was facing being retired on disability from my job, that was really important;

2.  It was at a height where I could basically slide sideways into the driver's seat.  After two back surgeries, this was a very useful feature.

I've had to spend about $700 on a new pair of tires, a couple of electrical problems, etc.  I've recently discovered that the rear shocks need replacing, which is very expensive on this vehicle, as they're part of a self-leveling suspension, and can only be replaced at the dealer (Midas and similar companies won't touch them).  I also need a transmission service/overhaul/whatever.  The total cost of getting this work done is going to be in the region of $1,000.

A friend has pointed out to me that I'm spending enough on maintenance to make up the difference in payments between what I was spending on my pickup (about $525 per month) and this vehicle (about $285 per month).  If the maintenance bills slow down after this round, that will be fine, but if I have to continue to spend on maintenance, I'm basically deriving no advantage at all from my lower monthly purchase payments.

I have two-and-a-half years still to pay on the Montana, and owe about $2700 more than I'd get as a trade-in.  However, ye olde basic regular-cab pickups (2006 GMC Sierra, or Dodge Ram, or Ford F150) are available for a total cost to me, including covering the excess owed on my trade, of approximately $19,000.  On a 60-month loan, this would mean repayments of approximately $370 per month, or about $85 more than I'm paying now.  Of course, being new, there would (hopefully) not be any major maintenance expenses for several years.

So, my question is this.  Should I go for the new pickup, paying about $85 more per month for it than for my van, and over twice as long a period, but saving on maintenance costs?  Should I stay with the minivan, accepting the higher maintenance costs, and treat them as the cost of a cheaper purchase price?

I also have to take into account that I'm never going to recover the maintenance costs on resale, as the minivan is already 6 years old, and getting older, whereas after paying off the truck, it'll be only 5 years old, and still worth a reasonable sum.

Help!  Who are the car finance gurus on the forum?  What would be the most cost-effective way to go, particularly considering that I'm on a disability income, which doesn't leave much to spare?

[Standing Wolf]

Unless you're a very competent mechanic or extremely lucky, used cars are just as expensive as new. I learned that lesson the hard way.

[Guest]

My minivan has 220,000 miles on it, been paid for for years, and I probably average $100.00 a month on repairs. Maybe a little more when I figure in the deductable every time I hit a deer.

Of course, I only fix things that need fixed.

[cfabe]

I'm not going to offer much advice on the financial side of things, but I'll bet you can replace those fancy shocks with normal shocks for about 1/10th the cost. The dealer and chain stores won't do it, but a small independent shop probably would be able to set you up. If there's an option level of the same van without the fancy suspension (like the chevy version, maybe?) use those shocks instead.

[Phyphor]

Preacherman, to check to see if your trans really needs an overhaul, you can pull the dipstick out of it, and smell the fluid.  It should be a red color, and shouldn't smell burnt.  If it's brown/black, and smells burnt, then the trans will probably need to be overhauled.   Changing the fluid can prolong the life of the trans, assuming it's not already slipping.
It'll probably run you about $60 to have a service done on the trans (fluid and filter)

(that assumes, of course, that it's an automatic. ;-) )

[grampster]

There is also a filter in the tranny that might need cleaning.  (At least there used to be filters in transmissions)

Stay away from dealers.  Ask around your circle of aquaintances and find a good mechanic that works in his garage on the side.  Check with the local school admin. and find out if they have a Skill Center that trains students in the trades.  They are always looking for vehicles to fix and all you generally pay for are parts.

If you can sell the van and get out of debt, pay cash for something that will get you around.  Occasional car repairs on a paid up vehicle is better than car payments.  If you have to borrow to get a better vehicle, get a Nissan or Toyota.

[onions!]

The idea to check for a conventional rear suspension is a good one.I'd be willing to bet that there is a very low miles van w/a crushed front end waiting in a local salvage yard that's just itching to slide in ,complete,under your van.(I can check that in the A.M. if u want).

OTOH,are you willing to consider a lease trade in?A two year old pickup w/factory warranty left will probably go for 60-70% the cost of a new version of the same.&,you could still add a factory extended warranty(GM for sure,I've no idea about Ford & Dodge)to push the warranty coverage out to 70k.

A final option?There are lots of vehicles down south that just need a little TLC to get going again.Just check in at Katrina's Lake Ponchitrain Auto Sales....

[garyk/nm]

Preacherman,
We have the Oldsmobile version of your van, same year. It also has the self-leveling feature. This feature is nothing more that air-adjustable shocks, hooked up to the on-board compressor.  Two possibilities: have Gabriel Hi-jackers ($60/pair) installed in place of the OEM units. Some adapting of the air lines to the fittings may be required; or any aftermarket shocks for the lesser equipped vans can be substituted if you disable the compressor switch attached to the rear track bar.

Either option will save bunches of $$$ over replacing the factory set-up.

Oh, and dealership service depts will ALWAYS try to sell you the most expensive repair. It's what they do. Have your trans fluid and filter changed. You will most likely be pleased with the results.

Can't speak to the financial aspect, not qualified.

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

For both vehicles, add up the total costs to own and maintain the thing (remaining loan payments, repairs, gas, etc).  Divide that by the amount of life you expect to get from it.  That'll tell you which is the better deal in the long run.

Why not consider a lightly used truck?  If it's only two or three years old it'll still give you several years worth of good service before needing big repairs.  It'll be much cheaper to buy than the new truck.  And once the repairs start coming, it'll probably be cheaper to repair than the van you have now.  Sorta the best of both worlds.

Also, most trucks are easy to repair.  If you're industrious you can learn to do the basics yourself, then you'll only have to pay for the really tough jobs.

[K Frame]

Careful, Preacherman, next thing you know the commentary will flip over to what an idiot you are for living whereever you do...

Word to the wise for the future...

Used Pontiacs are NEVER a good bet.

[caseydog]

Preacherman , if it really boils down to about $85 bucks a month , do it, a planned payment with the warranty as insurance is better than the nasty surprises you've already had and the ones you have coming.

Now i'm not generally a big GM fan , but test drive all the trucks on some rougher roads , I believe the Chevy or GM will be easiest on your aching back. Beat a deal out of them , full size trucks have fallen out of favor with the recent gas price fiasco, maybe even moreso in your area.

Ray

[onions!]

Well,it looks like there are two different shocks for your rear air-adjustable system.According to MY GM parts catalog anyways.They wholesale for either $100 or $129 ea plus tax.Your VIN # would narrow it down to one.

BTW,your van was optionally equipped w/a conventional rear suspension as well.No need to polute a Poncho w/Chevrolet parts.

[cfabe]

Autozone lists their basic replacement shock for this vehicle without air suspension for $21.99

[richyoung]

DITCH the minivan ASAP !!  Do a Google search on "dex-cool" and "GM Lemon" and you will see why...either the new "organic" coolant formula eats the gaskets for the ntake manifold, or they were poorly designed - or both!  If not replaced they WILL fail - it's just a question of when, (my Grand Prix was earlier this year...) and how much, (mine was $400, but $2000 is not unheard of, depending on where you live...and total engine AND transmission failure is not unheard of either - (the tranny is cooled by pumping fluid through tubes in the radiator - and if that isn't cooling due to head gasket failure - then NOTHING gets cooled...).  Apparently GM knew of the problem, and put a product they bought from the Bars-leaks company into the new cars to get them out of the warranty period!  Again - if you can get out for only $85 more a month - GO GO GO!

[Paddy]

It depends on your tolerance level for stuff that doesn't work.  Mine is very low, especially when it comes to vehicles.  My experience has been that when a car/truck starts to go south it only gets increasingly worse.  Before long, you've spent more on repairs that the car is worth.

Here in California, your vehicle is as important as the horse was in the old western days.  If you got another vehicle, or don't need this one for absolutely crucial transportation, you might be able to nurse it along for awhile.  But I'd think seriously about a replacement.

[charby]

Preacherman

If you are thinking about a new or newer vehicle take a look at the Honda Element. It looks like the front seats are set up like your van where you can slide in and out. Honda has a damn good reputation and great resale. I don't own one but I have been thinking about getting one to replace my aging daily driver. They are ugly but really functional.

Just my two cents.

Charby

[Paddy]

The Element gets crappy mileage.  Take a look at the Toyota Yaris
http://www.toyota.com/vehicles/future/yaris.html

[Mongo]

Preacherman, you didn't tell us how much you drive the vehicle.

Here is my thought on vehicles.  I don't buy new anymore since I drive 62 miles a day to work, and I save the $$ from the car payment into a car fund.   Pay myself every pay period.  In two years or so, I've accumulated about $4,000.  I pay repair costs out of the fund.

I can use the fund to replace a transmission (which is likely with the model I have), or as a downpayment on a newer vehicle.  Since I count beans for a living, I've analyzed how much it costs me to do things this way.  

You know the mileage minimum I drive.  With taxes, repairs, gas, oil, maintenance, repairs, and insurance i pay $13.20 a day to drive.    

YMMV

[BryanP]

Preacheman,

I'm a big believer in used cars and not having car payments.  I squeezed 230,000+ miles out of my previous car (1993 Ford Escort) and have passed 253,000 miles on my current car (1994 Chevy Corsica).  The key is to inexpensive and reliable used cars are

a)  Research.
b)  Know a mechanic / garage you can trust.
c)  A touch of luck.  

Because of my wife wrecking two perfectly good cars in recent years (sigh) I've become adept at looking for them.

I recommend 3 web sites to research/find a car in your area.

MSN Auto Reliability Ratings

Cars.com

Carfax

I've been using the auto reliabilty site since well before they were absorbed by MSN.  They do not appear to have suffered in quality.  I've been steered away from some awful models and particular "problem years" with specific models by using this site.

Cars.com will help you find lots of used cars in your area, including listings from individual sellers.

Carfax lets you look up the VIN and check the title history.  Whenever I've been buying (or helping someone) I just buy a 1-month subscription to Carfax so I can look up as many VIN's as I need.

Right now the "best" bargains are on gas guzzlers, fancy that.    Want an Expedition?  

The next step is to take the car to a mechanic you trust and have them check it out stem to stern.  

The final step is to laugh at the "used cars are nothing but trouble" crowd.  My car isn't the prettiest but it runs reliably.  And for what I'm *not* paying out in a car note every month I can afford any needed repairs.  Granted, my current vehicle is nearing the end of it's lifespan.  I'll buy another $5-$7K car and either pay cash or as much as possible and pay the rest off in 6 months to a year.

[Preacherman]

Thank you to everyone who's responded.  Some very good ideas were shared.

I rather think that I'm going to end up going for a new entry-level pickup (regular cab, 6-cylinder engine).  This is dictated in part by my need to tow a small travel trailer from time to time, and carry loads on other occasions:  and it's helped by the fact that there are some real bargains available in this market segment right now.  I've had good offers from local dealers in Dodge, Ford and GM trucks, and am likely to go for the latter - it's an older design than the other two, with less desirable features, but on the other hand, the dealer knows this, and is compensating by throwing in additional features (free tow package, $500 more for my trade, etc.) for a lower price.  I'm likely to pay about $3,000 less for that pickup than for one from the other two of the "Big 3", equipped as I want it.

I'll use the weekend to make up my mind, and decide by Monday.

[Parker Dean]

Yeah, if you're not able to do significant repairs by yourself for whatever reason, IMO it's best to have a vehicle with a factory warranty.

DITCH the minivan ASAP !!  Do a Google search on "dex-cool" and "GM Lemon" and you will see why...either the new "organic" coolant formula eats the gaskets for the ntake manifold, or they were poorly designed - or both!  If not replaced they WILL fail - it's just a question of when...

As for the 3.1/3.4 intake gaskets, IMO it's a poor design mostly. The gasket is a plastic form with a silicone bead approx 1/8 thick around all the ports. I think they use this because it's a very forgiving gasket so the machining can be garbage and it'll still seal. Anyway, with age the plastic form becomes brittle and breaks and then it's only a matter of time until the silicone worms it's way out. Most of the time they leak externally but a significant percentage rupture to the lifter valley and that fills the crankcase with coolant. Even if you catch it quick and clean the engine out, it seems that too often the bearings will come apart 10-15,000 miles later.

Another engine that uses the same type intake gasket is the Ford 4.2 V6. Except that Ford went one better by placing a coolant passage right next to an intake port on cylinders 1 and 4 (both front) so that when the gasket fails it fills the cylinder with coolant. Since water is not compressible this gets you a bent rod at best, and a hole in the block at worst.

[rwc]

I'll add a couple thoughts to BryanP's advice - buy used cars that are 2 years old. You get past the steepest part of the depreciationn curve and still have a like new vehicle.  And use Consumer Reports to narrow your search.  My in-laws like their 2002 Toyota Sienna Symphony for what that's worth.