Beware of the Ammunition Coding System

[Preacherman]

Hello, all.  I've been researching a company called Ammunition Coding System (ACS).  To put it in a nutshell, they've patented a process to engrave unique identifying codes on the bases of bullets when they're manufactured.  Now they're trying to introduce legislation in every State to force the adoption of their technology (to their profit and our expense, of course).  I've given full details of their front organization and tactics in a post on my blog:

http://bayourenaissanceman.blogspot.com/2008/11/beware-of-ammunition-coding-system.html

The company's been around for a few years, but it looks like they're ramping up their efforts to impose their system on us, whether we like it or not.  I'd be grateful if you'd please pass the word to your shooting friends.  We need to be on the alert for this in every State legislature, and fight it.

Thanks.

[Manedwolf]

Don't forget that this will backdoor a way for a foreign ammunition BAN.

Shoot S&B? Prvi? Whoops!

Implementation of the ACS Technology

The implementation of the ACS technology will require legislation to establish an ammunition sale database. In those states that have already developed and implemented bar-coding systems that include driver’s licenses and other forms of identification, the integration of a database system to record ammunition sales will be relatively simple and inexpensive to implement.

My reply would be unprintable here, and probably be quite colorful. In several languages, because there's some concepts of profanity that only properly come across in Spanish, German and Yiddish. And I'd use them all. 

[Umber]

I understand the concern, but all is not lost even if such silliness as encoding does go on.  It’s going to be pretty hard for any factory encoding to be found on bullets I’ve cast, or lathe turned.  Not that I ever cast or lathe turn any bullets, you understand.  I’m not even currently playing around with paper patched steel slugs out of a rifled 12 gauge even if I enjoyed such activities.  Not me.  No, sir.

But if I had any firearms and if I did have reason to believe the ammo was encoded, what’s to keep me from pulling the bullets, burnishing the bases and stamping my own little logo there.  Something humorous so that the bullets would be happy little bullets.  Maybe Alfred E. Neuman flipping the bird.

Umber

[Werewolf]

I understand the concern, but all is not lost even if such silliness as encoding does go on.  It’s going to be pretty hard for any factory encoding to be found on bullets I’ve cast, or lathe turned.  Not that I ever cast or lathe turn any bullets, you understand.  I’m not even currently playing around with paper patched steel slugs out of a rifled 12 gauge even if I enjoyed such activities.  Not me.  No, sir.

But if I had any firearms and if I did have reason to believe the ammo was encoded, what’s to keep me from pulling the bullets, burnishing the bases and stamping my own little logo there.  Something humorous so that the bullets would be happy little bullets.  Maybe Alfred E. Neuman flipping the bird.

Umber

Silly Rabbit - encoding will be for everyone.

Meaning that any laws passed will make it a requirement that bullets sold for reloaders be encoded and added to the database. It will become illegal for anyone to cast their own bullets or at least require any home cast bullets to be encoded (you'll have to buy the means to do that) and the casting of said bullets to be recorded and reported to your masters.

Any failure to do so will undoubtedly be punishable by a rather long stay in a state or federally run facility where you will learn the error of your ways courtesy of your new wife and 6'8", 300lb cellmate named Bubba.

Getting caught with any ammunition using unencoded bullets will result in a punishment like the one mentioned above. Grandfathering unencoded ammo will not be done so throw it all away Mr. & Mrs. America.

I imagine that company is not only lobbying the individual states but has a few congresscritters in it's pockets who are now planning on proposing said legislation at the federal level. Most here can think of at least 3 such critters who would gladly propose such and wouldn't even have to be bribed by a lobbyist to do so.

[AZRedhawk44]

The big threat I see from such schemes is to those who handload their own ammunition.

Even if it's only a threat to casters or to those who swage their own jacketed bullets on Corbin gear.

It's another small sub-set of the gun culture, like EBR owners or .50 BMG owners or kitchen table FFL's.  Easily isolated, destroyed, then move on to the next group.

I'm sure we'll end up being able to continue to handload or manufacture bullets, but only with a special permit from the ATF much like a C&R license.  And it comes with responsibilities to allow inspections when requested.

I'll watch my legislature, but the big threat for something like this will come from either California (in an attempt to economically mandate this procedure across the country), or from DC.

[Manedwolf]

And again, the overseas makers are not going to go along with this at all. Which means no imports.

No more Prvi (Serbia) ammo for odd calibers, no more S&B, no more any of that.

Prvi is the only current maker of things like brasscased 7.5x55 Swiss, 7.5 French and other ammo. That would go away for good. So would all the cheap Russian 7.62x39.

We would be left with overpriced and crappy WWB 7.62x39, and that's...pretty much it. :|

[Tallpine]

The WoG will be about as effective as the WoD  :rolleyes:

[AZRedhawk44]

The WoG will be about as effective as the WoD  :rolleyes:

Yes but they both feed the overarching machine of the GWoT.

[Harold Tuttle]

My years of experience with Washington DC & Maryland gun lobbying
tell me to follow the money and look for the same character list as the MD/NJ Ballistic Fingerprint /Smart gun debacle.

The main conundrum in all of this is an an instrument of crime control it will FAIL as career criminals will use stolen ammo

The only measurable success will be in the increase in the weight of the bureaucratic yoke cast upon the honest man.

[Umber]

Silly Rabbit - encoding will be for everyone.

Meaning that any laws passed will make it a requirement that bullets sold for reloaders be encoded and added to the database. It will become illegal for anyone to cast their own bullets or at least require any home cast bullets to be encoded (you'll have to buy the means to do that) and the casting of said bullets to be recorded and reported to your masters.

Any failure to do so will undoubtedly be punishable by a rather long stay in a state or federally run facility where you will learn the error of your ways courtesy of your new wife and 6'8", 300lb cellmate named Bubba.

Getting caught with any ammunition using unencoded bullets will result in a punishment like the one mentioned above. Grandfathering unencoded ammo will not be done so throw it all away Mr. & Mrs. America.

I imagine that company is not only lobbying the individual states but has a few congresscritters in it's pockets who are now planning on proposing said legislation at the federal level. Most here can think of at least 3 such critters who would gladly propose such and wouldn't even have to be bribed by a lobbyist to do so.

So.  When encoding is required on all ammo, I'll just stop casting and loading my own??

I find that idea so farfetched that it's amusing.

As for "Bubba"... if I'm sitting in the clink for shooting a few rounds of un-encoded 45/70 out in the backyard once in a while, what exactly is going to keep me from shanking the unlearned lad half dozen times under the short ribs to discourage further amorous activies directed toward me?

Oh, beans.  I forgot.  They'll throw me in jail.

Umber

[Werewolf]

So.  When encoding is required on all ammo, I'll just stop casting and loading my own??

Life is all about choices, risk and consequence.

I really don't imagine that encoding will ever pass into law except in a few states like CA and maybe MA. But lets assume it goes national and the penalty for violating and getting caught is a mandatory 10 years in a federal hotel as it is for violation of many federal gun laws.

Accept the risk associated with casting your own and getting caught. Suffer the consequence.

It's all about choice, risk and consequence.

Here's hoping such an inane law never passes.
Here's hoping that if it does you don't get caught violating it.
Here's hoping your federally mandated roomate won't be 6'8", 300lb and think you gotta purty mouth. 

[Marnoot]

They'd have to decree all existing ammo be turned-in or destroyed wouldn't they? Otherwise I could just load to my hearts content and if caught claim I made it prior to the serialization law.

[Otherguy Overby]

According to Calguns this was passed into law with a fatal flaw.  The state wants rights to the patent and the manufacturer can't/won't give them up...  :)

Read it at calguns.net you'll have to search the forums.

[Tallpine]

If the government wants to inspect and/or confiscate my non-coded ammo, I will just have to let them have it 

[seeker_two]

Maybe it's time that I get acquainted with those who transport "discreet" cargo across the Texas-Mexico border...

[280plus]

Hey Preacherman, long time no see! Thanks for the heads up! 

[Bigjake]

If the government wants to inspect and/or confiscate my non-coded ammo, I will just have to let them have it 

Hell, I'll even remove that pesky brass case obscuring their view, charitable and decent person that I am...

[freakazoid]

I imagine that if it passed on a federal level there would more than likely be a type of grandfathering in of older ammo. So basically don't shoot the old ammo up at the firing range,  ...

Hell, I'll even remove that pesky brass case obscuring their view, charitable and decent person that I am... laugh

 ...unless your door becomes a firing range then shoot the old ammo to your hearts content, although at that point I guess it wouldn't matter, 

One scary thing is if it does get passed on a federal level not only would you no longer be able to get some of the foreign ammo for your rare guns, but also they would then be able to limit what type of ammo is being produced.

[BigStick]

This should be posted in the appropriate forum on the main THR website and other gun sites as well. This type of information needs as much exposure as possible.

[RevDisk]

I wonder if police or military would be exempt from requirements.  I wouldn't be overly surprised.   If police were required to use said technology, I'd imagine "LE only ammo" serial numbers would pop up on the internet in short order.   And if one obtained access to the patent documentation or uhm, somehow obtained access to the manufacturing technology...  Be a nifty way to pin a crime on other folks.  Wonder how 'crimes' committed with forged or stolen LE ammo it would take before the police associations started screaming for exemption.


If it passed, no imports and the price of ammo goes up significantly as I'm guessing one company holds the patent.  I'm gathering you could still handload, just with 'registered bullets'.   I love it when a company's business plan is to attempt to bribe the Legislative branch into giving them a monopoly.   They never think it will bite them on the rear end. 

Realistically, I'd only expect to see it pass in CA, NJ and MA.  Maybe Maryland and Chicago. 

[tokugawa]

This would be a super way to screw up investigations- we already know criminals usually steal their guns- now they will just steal ammo too- that has someone else's code on it. That would be an important thing to point out in hearing.

[280plus]

This should be posted in the appropriate forum on the main THR website and other gun sites as well. This type of information needs as much exposure as possible.

Exercise your right to copy and paste!