Dutch court: prosecute anti-Islamic lawmaker

[HankB]

In the Austin American Statesman paper, there was a brief article stating that:

THE HAGUE, Netherlands — A right-wing lawmaker should be prosecuted for inciting racial hatred with anti-Islamic statements that include calling the Quran a "fascist book," a Dutch court ruled Wednesday.

http://www.statesman.com/search/content/shared-gen/ap/Europe/EU_Netherlands_Hate_Speech.html

So it would appear that airing an improper opinion has now been criminalized in the EU, and specifically by the Dutch. One wonders if this type of ruling will be broadly applied, or very narrowly, and very selectively, applied.

I'm betting on the latter - chanting "Death to Israel" or "Death to America" will probably be considered acceptable under the law. 

[MicroBalrog]

Just like in Israel.

I've seen Fitna - it's a lame movie, making M. Moore look awesome as a movie maker.

But this is oppression.

APSites, be glad that God has so ordained that you are American citizens.

[makattak]

Just like in Israel.

I've seen Fitna - it's a lame movie, making M. Moore look awesome as a movie maker.

But this is oppression.

APSites, be glad that God has so ordained that you are American citizens.

I think Him everyday for that.

Even at our worst, it's still the best country in the world. (I know many others take umbrage at that, but... I'm not taking it back.)

And I'm fighting to keep it that way.

[Manedwolf]

I think Him everyday for that.

Even at our worst, it's still the best country in the world. (I know many others take umbrage at that, but... I'm not taking it back.)

And I'm fighting to keep it that way.

It really is the last light that people keep trying to escape to. That's why it's important that it not become just one more eurozone.

[K Frame]

Not politics.

[Standing Wolf]

It really is the last light that people keep trying to escape to. That's why it's important that it not become just one more eurozone.

I believe it's a bit late for that.

[makattak]

I believe it's a bit late for that.

Surpisingly, I'm going to be optimistic.

It's never too late. Whatever damage the euro-izers^TM do to the country, it can be reversed.

We will suffer, it will be hard, but it can be fixed.

[Manedwolf]

I believe it's a bit late for that.

Not yet.

I saw why during the ice storm. Without any compulsion from authority telling them to, people helped each other because they wanted to and it was right to do so. People with chainsaws showed up in other people's neighborhoods to help cut fallen branches, all sorts of things.

[agricola]

At the risk of excusing this, it should be noted that Wilders is being hoist by his own petard (from HankB's article):

In 2007, Wilders called for a ban on the Quran "the same way we ban 'Mein Kampf.'" He said both Adolf Hitler's work and the Muslim holy book contain passages that contradict Western values.

"I've had enough of Islam in the Netherlands; let not one more Muslim immigrate," he wrote once in national newspaper De Volkskrant. "I've had enough of the Quran in the Netherlands: Forbid that fascist book."

"Wait, dont ban me you idiots!  Ban those guys instead!"

 :rolleyes:

[MicroBalrog]

It's never too late. Whatever damage the euro-izers^TM do to the country, it can be reversed.

Yes. It's still pointless if it takes 70 more years.

[HankB]

At the risk of excusing this, it should be noted that Wilders is being hoist by his own petard (from HankB's article):

In 2007, Wilders called for a ban on the Quran "the same way we ban 'Mein Kampf.'" He said both Adolf Hitler's work and the Muslim holy book contain passages that contradict Western values.

"I've had enough of Islam in the Netherlands; let not one more Muslim immigrate," he wrote once in national newspaper De Volkskrant. "I've had enough of the Quran in the Netherlands: Forbid that fascist book."

"Wait, dont ban me you idiots!  Ban those guys instead!"

 :rolleyes:

You caught that too, eh? 

Interesting how calling for a ban on something a great many people find objectionable can result in actual criminal prosecution because you are deemed to have offended a particular group. 

[agricola]

:rolleyes:
You caught that too, eh? 

Interesting how calling for a ban on something a great many people find objectionable can result in actual criminal prosecution because you are deemed to have offended a particular group. 

Perhaps, though it is deeply hypocritical.  Also, who finds the Koran objectionable? 

[Manedwolf]

Perhaps, though it is deeply hypocritical.  Also, who finds the Koran objectionable? 

I do. It's poorly written, self-contradictory over and over again in a downright schizophrenic way, repeatedly calls for violence, and excuses lying. Compared to the Bible, it's a much darker book that shows the worrying societal tendencies of the people who wrote it. Mohammed was not a nice guy as written, he was downright brutal, not at all a Jesus in any way. Where the Bible has love, the Koran has death and destruction and denial of what I consider to be basic human qualities in favor of repressive rules. There isn't much happy about it at all. As a self-help book, it sucks. So many people who follow it seem to be very unhappy, angry people, so my opinion stands there.

But I also respect the right of people to read and have it. It's just a book. People are the only ones who can decide to do bad things, a book can't make them do it. No books should be banned.

I'd rather just ban radicalized Islamists who are on record as calling for violence, even imams who actively recruit and brainwash, but leave the book alone. It's an object. Objects can't do a thing on their own.

[Matthew Carberry]

What do you expect from swamp Germans?

Just kidding, I love the Dutch.

[agricola]

I do. It's poorly written, self-contradictory over and over again in a downright schizophrenic way, repeatedly calls for violence, and excuses lying. Compared to the Bible, it's a much darker book that shows the worrying societal tendencies of the people who wrote it. Mohammed was not a nice guy as written, he was downright brutal, not at all a Jesus in any way. Where the Bible has love, the Koran has death and destruction and denial of what I consider to be basic human qualities in favor of repressive rules. There isn't much happy about it at all. As a self-help book, it sucks. So many people who follow it seem to be very unhappy, angry people, so my opinion stands there.

But I also respect the right of people to read and have it. It's just a book. People are the only ones who can decide to do bad things, a book can't make them do it. No books should be banned.

I'd rather just ban radicalized Islamists who are on record as calling for violence, even imams who actively recruit and brainwash, but leave the book alone. It's an object. Objects can't do a thing on their own.

Much of the same criticisms could also be aimed at the Bible, especially the Old Testament, and then of course one has to bear in the use to which both parts of the Bible have been put by various people, groups and nations down the years.  

Its also important to note that Wilders was calling for the book to be banned, not (as you rightly say) calling for peoples actions to be subject to banning measures.  I dont think Wilders should be prosecuted for hate speech, but I do think that as a politician he should be subject to serious questions as to why he is seeking to restrict other peoples rights in this regard.

[Zardozimo Oprah Bannedalas]

Eh... the Bible features, amongst other things, fratricide, a few cases of incest, extermination of entire cities, etc.

[Manedwolf]

Eh... the Bible features, amongst other things, fratricide, a few cases of incest, extermination of entire cities, etc.

Not as positive examples of behavior to emulate, though.

[MicroBalrog]

Not as positive examples of behavior to emulate, though.

The "Extermination of cities" was something the Jews did on God's command when they first arrived in the Holy Land.

Jews are specifically called to wage was on Amalek forever down to their lowest descendants.

In fact, Aharon kills a Midyanite woman by stabbing her in her lower belly with a spear in front of a huge crowd, for marrying a Jew, and the Bible follows with "and God thanked Aharon."

Not to mention the guy who quarters his wife with a saw for being raped and mails the four bits to her relatives.

[De Selby]

A good 90 percent of the anti-Islam criticism comes from people who have an extremely shallow understanding of its teachings.  The good criticism that does exist is almost entirely religious in nature, and thus rarely enters the public debate.

Wilders should have promoted free speech if he wanted....freedom of speech.

Banning books we don't like and throwing people in jail for having unpopular beliefs doesn't seem like such a great idea now, I bet.

That said, the Europeans should be doing more in examining the human right of free speech.  It's not enough to just throw it out there that Hitler's propaganda did damage; the most stringent protections should apply to free people engaging in a debate or otherwise expressing their ideas.