Opinions on rainwater drain solution for lawn

[Monkeyleg]

I've posted before about the problem we've had with water getting into the basement during and after a hard rain, and am looking for opinions on yet another part of treating the problem.

We had water coming in from the joints where the floor meets the walls, and it would happen in various areas of the basement. I surmised that we might have drain tile that was clogged (our house is 70+ years old), so I had the interior drain tile replaced, and the weep holes going through the block to the outside cleaned out. The old drain tile and weep holes were indeed completely clogged.

That did the trick except for two areas: the northwest corner of the house, and the room under the rear stoop. We had a very heavy rain last evening, and water came in from both areas.

The northwest corner is a grading problem. The soil in the yard has settled, so we need to build up the grade.

The room under the stoop is a different matter. The stoop extends away from the house about six feet, and there's sidewalk running parallel to the house that abuts the stoop. So there's areas of soil to either side of the stoop that are surrounded by the foundation, the stoop, and the sidewalk, and not a lot of area for grading alone to solve the problem.

Years ago I ran the downspouts from the house underground and out to the streets. One of these pipes is next to the stoop.

My idea for a solution to the stoop problem is to remove much of the soil on either side of the stoop, grade it away from the house and the stoop, lay down heavy plastic sheeting, and attach the sheeting to the house, stoop and sidewalks with a waterproof caulk or adhesive. I've seen this done before.

I would then have a "gully" in this right up by the sidewalk, and put drain tile wrapped in yard fabric in that gully, cover with gravel, then with sand. This drain tile ("french drain") would attach to the underground pipes I already have running out to the street. I would then put down topsoil and sod over that.

To further help take water away from the stoop area, I'd also do the same thing on the side of the sidewalk away from the house, and join that french drain into the underground drain pipes.

I'd really appreciate anyone's comments, advice or tales of experience with this type of plan.

[bedlamite]

Just take off and nuke the sight from orbit, it's the only way to be sure.

[Monkeyleg]

Oh, I'd like to, believe me.

[Antibubba]

From his other posts I infer that he'd like one of the old Soviet ones that would obliterate 60 square miles.  It'd solve all his problems at one time!
 

[vaskidmark]

Get some of that white rubbery paint stuff and slather it on the inside walls & floor.  Slather more on the places where the water finds a new way to get in till you have the whole inside rubberized - then all you have to deal with is mold & mildew which can be done by spraying bleach.

stay safe.

skidmark

[Monkeyleg]

Get some of that white rubbery paint stuff and slather it on the inside walls & floor.  Slather more on the places where the water finds a new way to get in till you have the whole inside rubberized - then all you have to deal with is mold & mildew which can be done by spraying bleach.

That's a quick-fix solution to a more serious problem. The room under the porch gets so much water around it during a really heavy rain that water comes out of some of the joints between the blocks. It's like little faucets. The water pressure on the walls of that room must be incredible.

I can tell people that the basement gets water during heavy rains, but I'd lose a good number of potential buyers, and wind up taking a hit on price. If I lie, they can come back and sue years later. I'd rather be able to say that we did X, Y & Z to the basement, and it's been dry.

[cfabe]

I think you are on the right track with the french drain around the affected area. Surface grading may help depending on your soil type. We have very sandy soils around me and grading doesn't do much, the water just runs right through the soil.

How far below grade are you thinking about placing the tile. Ideally you would get it down as far as the basement. That would give the water somewhere to go instead of the basement and if you could do that I don't think you'd need to mess around with the plastic sheeting. Since you mentioned the pipes go to the "street" and not to an underground storm sewer, I assume they are only inches below ground, in which case the sheeting to divert the rainwater to the tile may work. But if during the rain the water table raises up to basement level, I think you will still get water in the basement.

[ilbob]

You have to do several things.

1. Fix the grade around the house so the water flows away from the house.

2. Get the water out. Some times you can do this with a simple sump and pump, or an outdoor French drain, other times you need a more elaborate scheme.

3. Waterproofing works best when applied on the outside but this is more expensive. Once you have the water running away from the house, and what water is in the ground being pumped away, you can decide how to waterproof your walls. Some times it turns out to be unnecessary.

My folks lived in a house built in the 30s. Had a dry basement until about ten years ago when they noticed the sump (no pump - just a sump) started getting water in it. Pump was added but water started getting into basement. Ended up with a contractor that came in and installed drain tile (actually plastic pipe) under the basement floor all the way around the perimeter so it could drain from under the floor into the sump.  They cut about a 8" trench in the floor all the way around the perimeter of the basement, dug it out maybe 12 ", but in some gravel and a black pipe with holes, more gravel and then concrete over top of it.

Now the sump pump runs pretty much every day even when it is not raining but the floor is dry and it is no longer damp in the basement.

The fix was not cheap, but it worked better than all the halfway things that were tried first.

My guess is the water table got higher. Not much you can do but get rid of the water somehow.

[Leatherneck]

First principles:
1. Water always tries to flow downward because of gravity.
2. If blocked, water builds up (pools).
3. The earlier you can give it an escape during the cloud-to-groundwater trip, the less problem it will be in your basement.

So think: gutters with good drainage away from the foundation, then properly tamped and graded backfill next to the foundation, then drain tiles (permeable pipes) to daylight, backed up by internal emergency basement drainage like sumps, etc.

Always strive for a free down-sloped path away from the foundation.

TC

[Monkeyleg]

I just had the interior drain tile replaced a few weeks ago. They also installed a sump pump.

Going down to the foundation to replace the exterior drain tile is a $10K+ job. It means digging up the entire yard around the house, and then replacing it, and trying to get everything back to normal by next spring. Not possible, and not necessary.

Simple grading will work for the northwest corner, but for the area around  the room under the back stoop, something more is needed. All of the downspouts connect to this system I installed.

The purpose of the plastic is to divert the water that would seep into the ground right by the stoop down to where the french drain tile is.

I've seen articles on this, but never have heard someone say how well it works.

[Bigjake]

I just had the interior drain tile replaced a few weeks ago. They also installed a sump pump.

Going down to the foundation to replace the exterior drain tile is a $10K+ job. It means digging up the entire yard around the house, and then replacing it, and trying to get everything back to normal by next spring. Not possible, and not necessary.

If French draining it doesn't work, the only thing left IS the pricey option.  It's really not that hard, if you're not afraid of a bit of excavating.  Rent a mini excavator, dig down to your footer tile ( As long as there aren't any lines coming in on that side, it's cake).  Then you pay someone to hydroseal the exposed wall ( thing 1000-1500 bones), and backfill it with 57s. 

 Nothing to it, really, just a good deal of digging.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

http://www.basementwaterproofingsystems.com


i'ved used the dimpled membrane in conjunction with a plastic barrier like you had in mind to great effect. this house has 150 plus feet of hill draining down with house at the bottom of a bowl.  when it rains hard water runs deep enough to cover tops of my shoes.  was a damp basement is now dry  we only dug down 2 feet

[Monkeyleg]

Thanks for the replies.

I'm glad to hear that Cassandra and Sara's Daddy had good luck with something like this.

With everything we have to do, money is really tight. Even renting a mini backhoe would be pushing it, not to mention the extra costs for more labor, longer rental time for dumpsters, etc. I think that, with one of my brothers-in-law doing the grunt work, we could get this done in two days.

I'm sure glad my house isn't at the bottom of a hill like that.