More on Internet Anonymity

[AZRedhawk44]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/06/16/AR2009061601923_pf.html

Vegas paper gets subpoena to ID online commenters

The Associated Press
Tuesday, June 16, 2009 6:34 PM



LAS VEGAS -- A Nevada newspaper says it has been served a federal grand jury subpoena seeking information about readers who posted comments on the paper's Web site.

The Las Vegas Review-Journal reported Tuesday that its editor, Thomas Mitchell, plans to fight the request, which the newspaper received after reporting on a federal tax fraud case against business owner Robert Kahre.

The subpoena seeks the identities and personal information about people who posted comments on the story. The newspaper said prosecutors told the judge in the case that some comments hinted at acts of violence and the subpoena was issued out of concern for jurors' safety.

Mitchell said anonymous speech is "a fundamental and historic part of this country." The newspaper would consider cooperating if specific crimes or real threats were presented, he said.

The newspaper said the subpoena bears the name of U.S. Assistant District Attorney J. Gregory Damm, a lawyer on the Justice Department team that is prosecuting Kahre and others on charges including income tax evasion, fraud and criminal conspiracy.

Grand jury proceedings are secret, and the subpoena is not a public record.

A spokeswoman for the U.S. Attorney for Nevada declined to comment.

The newspaper said it received the subpoena June 2, a week after its story describing the government's case against Kahre, a Las Vegas construction company executive accused of paying contractors with gold and silver U.S. coins based on the precious metal value of the coins but using the much lower face value of the coins for tax purposes. Kahre and the other defendants have pleaded not guilty.

The story drew nearly 175 online comments by Monday night, most in support of Kahre and critical of the government and jurors and attorneys in the case.

One commentator said: "The sad thing is there are 12 dummies on the jury who will convict him. They should be hung along with the feds."

Another called Damm a "socialist, fascist Mormon" and a "Nazi moron."

The comments are written under pseudonyms. Along with the real names of people who posted comments, the subpoena asks the newspaper for the writers' gender, birth date, physical address, telephone number, Internet service provider, IP address and credit card numbers.

After a 2003 raid on Kahre's business, Kahre and several of his workers sued Damm, two Internal Revenue Service agents and others who were involved. That civil matter is pending.

In 2007, Kahre sued Damm and agents of the FBI and IRS, alleging criminal behavior. U.S. District Court Judge David Ezra dismissed the complaint in December, and Kahre appealed to the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals.

Two years ago, Damm prosecuted a similar tax case against nine defendants, including Kahre. The trial ended with no convictions and four acquittals.

Five defendants were partially acquitted, and two of them were dropped from the indictment that generated the current case.

Stupid inter-tards.

Posts containing the word "should" (The sad thing is there are 12 dummies on the jury who will convict him. They should be hung along with the feds.) are empty of function and purpose.  There's no tangible death threat in there.

But overzealous prosecutors will take that type of material and use it to establish case law that strips us of civil liberties.  Today it may be tongue-in-cheek death threats, but tomorrow it might be merely discussing civil disobedience with regard to taxes, or discussing the peaceable assembly of a large group without having a permit for that assembly.

How'd you like to get hauled up on charges for "conspiracy to commit tax evasion" for talking about ways to implement a barter/trade system... even if you didn't participate in that barter/trade system?

And as far as the actual tax evasion charges of this story... I see nothing wrong with a private contractor getting paid in bartered goods.  If the goobermint is dumb enough to stamp a coin as worth $1 (silver) or $20 (gold) face value and that's all it's legally recognized as being worth, sounds like the goobermint shot itself in the foot.

[K Frame]

This isn't politics until Congress takes up a bill designed to stop it.

[Leatherneck]

The sad thing is there are 12 dummies on the jury who will convict him. They should be hung along with the feds.

TC

[Standing Wolf]

Two years ago, Damm prosecuted a similar tax case against nine defendants, including Kahre. The trial ended with no convictions and four acquittals.

Sore loser.

[MicroBalrog]

[makattak]

http://www.globalbikers.com/pics/041106b.jpg

Yep, paraphrases suck, too.

The real quote is:

Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.

There are a few important adjectives that seem to be left out.

As to the article, I quite agree this is unjust. I just hate it when people trot out an incorrect quote.

[MicroBalrog]

These adjectives are not all that necessary.

More importantly, the picture obviously depicts a quote contracted for purpose of painting it on the wall. :

[AZRedhawk44]

More importantly, the picture obviously depicts a quote contracted for purpose of painting it on the wall. :

Except it isn't painted on the wall.... it's a PhotoChop.

And... I'd argue that "Security" and "Safety" are two very different principles.

[Balog]

Yep, paraphrases suck, too.

The real quote is:

Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.

There are a few important adjectives that seem to be left out.

As to the article, I quite agree this is unjust. I just hate it when people trot out an incorrect quote.

I thought that whole quote was not actually attributable to Franklin? What's your source? Not doubting you, I've just seen several different versions and attributions for that quote.

[makattak]

I thought that whole quote was not actually attributable to Franklin? What's your source? Not doubting you, I've just seen several different versions and attributions for that quote.

It may not be Franklins. It is in two of Franklin's works, though. In his notes for the Pennsylvania assembly, he quotes this: "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Found here).

Thus it may be an instance, just like the Jefferson mis-attribution, where he is quoting someone else.

However, it also appears in An Historical Review of the Constitution and Government of Pennsylvania from 1759, a work which Franklin did not author, but did publish and he claims some of the ideas in the book are his.

Thus, he may be the source of the quote, but it is unclear. However, the quote is clearly in his writings.

[Sawdust]

The comments are written under pseudonyms. Along with the real names of people who posted comments, the subpoena asks the newspaper for the writers' gender, birth date, physical address, telephone number, Internet service provider, IP address and credit card numbers.

WTF? Credit card numbers? Uh, why?

Sawdust

[freedom lover]

WTF? Credit card numbers? Uh, why?

Sawdust

Maybe so they can suspend the service so the commentors have a harder time getting out of the country.