Author Topic: Oath Keepers- Orders We Will Not Obey  (Read 3333 times)

nraforlife

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Oath Keepers- Orders We Will Not Obey
« on: October 25, 2009, 11:03:02 AM »
http://oath-keepers.blogspot.com/2009/03/oath-keepers-declaration-of-orders-we.html

Declaration of Orders We Will NOT Obey

Recognizing that we each swore an oath to support and defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic, and affirming that we are guardians of the Republic, of the principles in our Declaration of Independence, and of the rights of our people, we affirm and declare the following:

1. We will NOT obey any order to disarm the American people.

2. We will NOT obey any order to conduct warrantless searches of the American people, their homes, vehicles, papers, or effects - such as warrantless house-to house searches for weapons or persons.

3. We will NOT obey any order to detain American citizens as “unlawful enemy combatants” or to subject them to trial by military tribunal

4. We will NOT obey orders to impose martial law or a “state of emergency” on a state, or to enter with force into a state, without the express consent and invitation of that state’s legislature and governor.

5. We will NOT obey orders to invade and subjugate any state that asserts its sovereignty and declares the national government to be in violation of the compact by which that state entered the Union.

6. We will NOT obey any order to blockade American cities, thus turning them into giant concentration camps.

7. We will NOT obey any order to force American citizens into any form of detention camps under any pretext.

8. We will NOT obey orders to assist or support the use of any foreign troops on U.S. soil against the American people to “keep the peace” or to “maintain control.”

9. We will NOT obey any orders to confiscate the property of the American people, including food and other essential supplies.


10.We will NOT obey any orders which infringe on the right of the people to free speech, to peaceably assemble, and to petition their government for redress of grievances.

Oath Keepers is a non-partisan association of currently serving military, reserves, National Guard, peace officers, and veterans who swore an oath to support and defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic … and meant it.


Seems like a decent group of American Patriots to me. I wonder what percentage of current military, police and vets share this view and have the courage to act when the time comes.





Gewehr98

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Re: Oath Keepers- Orders We Will Not Obey
« Reply #1 on: October 25, 2009, 11:09:36 AM »
Ok...

Based on my own military career, I would wager the percentage of military and LE who hold such views privately is rather high, and the percentage of those who join such an organization while polishing their tin foil helmets is rather low.  

 ;/
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ilbob

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Re: Oath Keepers- Orders We Will Not Obey
« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2009, 12:08:16 PM »
since police and/or military almost routinely engage in some of these activities, and have regularly engaged in them within the history of our country, I don't see it going anywhere.
bob

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nraforlife

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Re: Oath Keepers- Orders We Will Not Obey
« Reply #3 on: October 25, 2009, 12:40:48 PM »
since police and/or military almost routinely engage in some of these activities, and have regularly engaged in them within the history of our country, I don't see it going anywhere.

at least you admit the problem for Americans unlike some.

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Re: Oath Keepers- Orders We Will Not Obey
« Reply #4 on: October 25, 2009, 01:09:30 PM »



Seems like a decent group of American Patriots to me. I wonder what percentage of current military, police and vets share this view and have the courage to act when IF the time comes.

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Re: Oath Keepers- Orders We Will Not Obey
« Reply #5 on: October 25, 2009, 01:37:39 PM »
Wow, obviously a crazy fringe right wing org!

I don't see how anyone can have a problem with any of these.  #5 is probably the sketchiest of all of them, as I can think of reasons why you'd want to avoid making #5 (Say the CSS Virginia attacked the Union navy, that might be a good reason to fight back)

Having said that, and without nitpicking #5, I don't get why these folks are such a big deal.  Most of these are Liberal values as well.
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MicroBalrog

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Re: Oath Keepers- Orders We Will Not Obey
« Reply #6 on: October 25, 2009, 01:42:25 PM »
Ok...

Based on my own military career, I would wager the percentage of military and LE who hold such views privately is rather high, and the percentage of those who join such an organization while polishing their tin foil helmets is rather low.  


FWIW a guy I know on another forum is an Oath Keeper and an an Air Force ground crew member.
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Gewehr98

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Re: Oath Keepers- Orders We Will Not Obey
« Reply #7 on: October 25, 2009, 02:03:28 PM »
Does his chain of command know?

What are his EPR ratings to date?

(IOW, being politically active while in the military is seriously frowned upon...)
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RocketMan

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Re: Oath Keepers- Orders We Will Not Obey
« Reply #8 on: October 25, 2009, 02:29:09 PM »
Like every other "patriot" group, this one will be marginalized and demonized, no matter what their intentions.  They will eventually fade into obscurity.
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MicroBalrog

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Re: Oath Keepers- Orders We Will Not Obey
« Reply #9 on: October 25, 2009, 02:36:59 PM »
Does his chain of command know?

What are his EPR ratings to date?

(IOW, being politically active while in the military is seriously frowned upon...)


Very good questions. I don't know the answers.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Oath Keepers- Orders We Will Not Obey
« Reply #10 on: October 25, 2009, 04:39:02 PM »
Quote
3. We will NOT obey any order to detain American citizens as “unlawful enemy combatants” or to subject them to trial by military tribunal

Um.  What if an American citizen is in Iraq, shooting at our guys?  If you can't detain him, then you have to kill him outright.  That's not always ethical, even in war...
« Last Edit: October 25, 2009, 05:28:16 PM by fistful »
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Monkeyleg

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Re: Oath Keepers- Orders We Will Not Obey
« Reply #11 on: October 25, 2009, 05:27:12 PM »
Quote
...those who join such an organization while polishing their tin foil helmets...

Brasso or Flitz?

RocketMan

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Re: Oath Keepers- Orders We Will Not Obey
« Reply #12 on: October 25, 2009, 05:42:36 PM »
If there really was intelligent life on other planets, we'd be sending them foreign aid.

Conservatives see George Orwell's "1984" as a cautionary tale.  Progressives view it as a "how to" manual.

My wife often says to me, "You are evil and must be destroyed." She may be right.

Liberals believe one should never let reason, logic and facts get in the way of a good emotional argument.

Jim147

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Re: Oath Keepers- Orders We Will Not Obey
« Reply #13 on: October 25, 2009, 06:51:14 PM »
Sometimes we carry more weight then we owe.
And sometimes goes on and on and on.

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Re: Oath Keepers- Orders We Will Not Obey
« Reply #14 on: October 25, 2009, 06:56:11 PM »
Um.  What if an American citizen is in Iraq, shooting at our guys?  If you can't detain him, then you have to kill him outright.  That's not always ethical, even in war...

Well then I suppose he could be arrested and tried for murder?
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Waitone

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Re: Oath Keepers- Orders We Will Not Obey
« Reply #15 on: October 25, 2009, 09:37:59 PM »
Southron Poverty Law Center will be all over these guys.  Not advisable to be drawing public lines in the sand at this point.  All they've done is make themselves a target for marginalization.
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Re: Oath Keepers- Orders We Will Not Obey
« Reply #16 on: October 25, 2009, 10:14:11 PM »
If I was active military, I would not be signing an oath that at a minimum seems to suggest that I will not obey lawful orders from my chain of command.  The sticky wicket, of course, is making that determination as to an order being lawful.  Can someone cite something from the JAG manuals as to which of these 10 points constitutes an unlawful order per se and should be disobeyed?
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SteveS

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Re: Oath Keepers- Orders We Will Not Obey
« Reply #17 on: October 25, 2009, 10:16:31 PM »
Southron Poverty Law Center will be all over these guys.  Not advisable to be drawing public lines in the sand at this point.  All they've done is make themselves a target for marginalization.

I believe they already have classified them as a "hate group" or some similar thing.  They seem to target all sorts of right leaning groups.
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Re: Oath Keepers- Orders We Will Not Obey
« Reply #18 on: October 25, 2009, 10:29:20 PM »
Quote
5. We will NOT obey orders to invade and subjugate any state that asserts its sovereignty and declares the national government to be in violation of the compact by which that state entered the Union.
I think this is the iffiest of the points above, and has a south-will-rise-again vibe to it that isn't very PR friendly.
Quote
They seem to target all sorts of right leaning groups.
SPLC is significantly less credible than WND.

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Re: Oath Keepers- Orders We Will Not Obey
« Reply #19 on: October 25, 2009, 10:35:39 PM »
Quote
Not advisable to be drawing public lines in the sand at this point.  All they've done is make themselves a target for marginalization.

Number one rule for peeps such as those that might align themselves with the "oath keepers". Keep your mouth shut, don't say a word to anyone. Not your buddy, not your girl, not on the internet no matter how anonymous you think you are.

Also summarized as "The squeaky wheel gets the grease". Don't be a squeaky wheel.





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Re: Oath Keepers- Orders We Will Not Obey
« Reply #20 on: October 25, 2009, 11:22:49 PM »
If you're bragging about "voting from the rooftops" on teh intarwebz you've pretty much demonstrated that you'll be less than useless in a real fight. Infosec anyone?
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Gewehr98

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Re: Oath Keepers- Orders We Will Not Obey
« Reply #21 on: October 25, 2009, 11:38:32 PM »
Grease being applied on a local basis...

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