Author Topic: A reference for scifi writers  (Read 5660 times)

Devonai

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Re: A reference for scifi writers
« Reply #25 on: November 02, 2009, 01:49:15 PM »
Nitrogen, you didn't read about it in my books!  I've always been intentionally vague about alien weaponry, taking the lazy way out (natch).  I do mention in my second book that a combination of conventional slugs (30mm and .50 BMG) and energy weapons are particularly effective against ship hulls: The energy weakens the hull and the slugs punch through.

I am hoping to provide more detail on alien weapons for my third book, hence the query.  I'm trying to envision something like an Explosively Formed Projectile in the vacuum of space over distance.  I was thinking the plasma could dump all of its energy into the copper alloy, turning it into slag, but the timing would be tricky.

AJ, I seem to recall reading that the plasma conduit lasers are easily dispersed by atmospheric interference.  Do you think it would work better in space?
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AJ Dual

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Re: A reference for scifi writers
« Reply #26 on: November 02, 2009, 04:53:05 PM »
Nitrogen, you didn't read about it in my books!  I've always been intentionally vague about alien weaponry, taking the lazy way out (natch).  I do mention in my second book that a combination of conventional slugs (30mm and .50 BMG) and energy weapons are particularly effective against ship hulls: The energy weakens the hull and the slugs punch through.

I am hoping to provide more detail on alien weapons for my third book, hence the query.  I'm trying to envision something like an Explosively Formed Projectile in the vacuum of space over distance.  I was thinking the plasma could dump all of its energy into the copper alloy, turning it into slag, but the timing would be tricky.

AJ, I seem to recall reading that the plasma conduit lasers are easily dispersed by atmospheric interference.  Do you think it would work better in space?

It wouldn't work at all. No air in space for the laser to ionize.

Niven had the "Kizinti Lesson" namely: Any spacecraft drive of sufficient efficiency is also equally useful as a weapon. Although it's a pretty short range affair. Except for the one story of the very first Kizinti/Human encounter where the Angel's Pencil uses a photon drive.

Although most drive exhaust products will still disperse quite nicely making "drive weapons" a pretty short range affair. IMO he missed the point that the biggest threat of any ship is it's ability to get up to thrust and let things go which will keep on moving. For instance, a high-thrust "tug" devoid of any cargo pods, and armed with a few bags of sand or gravel and a crewmember to rip them open and toss them out an airlock could really ruin someone's day.  =D

As far as the explosively formed warheads, it's neat, but again, all you need is velocity. Even at the modest sub-orbital velocities our ABM prototypes work at don't have any kind of warhead, just an impactor. A weapon system that explodes somehow right before impacting the target is just wasting mass it could be hitting that target with, either in impact mass, or fuel to accelerate that mass. It's not like on Earth in atmosphere where the explosive, such as in a HEAT style conical shaped charge self-forging penetrator can then step up the velocity at the last minute to penetrate an enemy vehicle.

Whatever velocity you put into the system in space, your going to keep until it hits something.

Nukes in space are way less efficient than people would think. Without atmosphere to heat, blast effects are limited to the actual mass of the bomb itself. And the radiation disperses with the inverse square law, just like light from stars or anything else radiating in space would.

Tactical battlefield lasers are making extrordinary leaps, however in space-warfare, you're limited to the minimum divergence to which a laser is physically possible, as defined by it's Rayleigh length, which is a function of it's wavelength and complicated mathematics as it relates to Gaussian beam profiles. Essentialy, this means even a perfect laser will diverge and spread out, given enough distance. You can extend the range, but the emitter diameter needs to be progressively larger to do so.

You can get close to a perfectly parallel colimated beam that needs no focus on it's target, but then you're talking about an ungodly power level.

Missiles and kinetics rule, unless you're postulating extremely high tech levels. If they have armor, just have a row of impactors that will hit in quick succession.

Maybe you could have the self-forging warhead also electromechanically charge a disposable coil-launcher which then flings the projectile. Well... but you're always dealing in energy conversions, which will never be 100% efficient, and all that energy is better put to use to moving the weapon, than fancy ways of launching it.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2009, 05:06:38 PM by AJ Dual »
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roo_ster

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Re: A reference for scifi writers
« Reply #27 on: November 02, 2009, 06:06:07 PM »
Yep, mass plus high velocity is king. 

"You have a fancy-shmancy active armor protection system with cutesy little missiles or even a laser?  Heh, try stopping a Mach 6.5 telephone pole with them, bucko..."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pEU9tHmoOc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwixhQI-r5w
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULRsLR1i1yU&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7npZtSGw84&feature=related
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LOSAT
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compact_Kinetic_Energy_Missile
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AJ Dual

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Re: A reference for scifi writers
« Reply #28 on: November 03, 2009, 09:13:32 AM »
LOSAT and CKEM are some seriously scary weapon systems.

No explosives needed. Pure kinetics. The foreshortened angles of most all of the video undermines just how damn FAST those missiles are going. And I love the squeaky riccochet-like squeal they make as they take off.

Those rockets must be experiencing thousands of G's of acceleration. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULRsLR1i1yU&feature=related This one where at 0:15 where a camera pans (I'm guessing a rotating prisim or mirror fired by a pyro...) with the rocket for a second looks almost cartoonish.
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Devonai

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Re: A reference for scifi writers
« Reply #29 on: November 03, 2009, 10:33:41 AM »
DROOL.

I love the Lockheed-Martin engineers cheering in one of the videos.

This makes me rethink the whole idea of directed energy weapons as standard for space combat.  Since I haven't yet explained my own "laser banks" and "plasma cannons," I wonder if I can artfully employ a little bit of harmless retconning, at least for the latter.  I can take advantage of the occasional fact that weapons systems get nicknames based on the power source or mechanism of action rather than the projectile.
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roo_ster

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Re: A reference for scifi writers
« Reply #30 on: November 03, 2009, 11:25:33 AM »
DROOL.

I love the Lockheed-Martin engineers cheering in one of the videos.

This makes me rethink the whole idea of directed energy weapons as standard for space combat.  Since I haven't yet explained my own "laser banks" and "plasma cannons," I wonder if I can artfully employ a little bit of harmless retconning, at least for the latter.  I can take advantage of the occasional fact that weapons systems get nicknames based on the power source or mechanism of action rather than the projectile.

Perhaps a KE missile powered by an on-board ship laser.  After initial launch, KE missile drops some material/fuel into a rear venturi and the on-board laser zaps the fuel, setting it off and getting the KE missile to scoot.
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roo_ster

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AJ Dual

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Re: A reference for scifi writers
« Reply #31 on: November 03, 2009, 11:39:27 AM »
That's not a bad idea.

The idea of using a laser to expand propellant in a combustion/reflection chamber is seriously being considered for getting things into low orbit. And anything good enough to get something into low orbit is certainly useful as a weapon too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_propulsion

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAdj6vpYppA

And despite the fact that the system in the video above uses the ambient atmosphere, ablative systems that push a projectile by vaporizing some of it's own mass from the tail end would work well in space.

It also postulates that a CIWS laser does not need to destroy incoming projectiles, it need only laser them enough to create outgassing that pushes them off course for a miss.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2009, 11:47:53 AM by AJ Dual »
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Gewehr98

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Re: A reference for scifi writers
« Reply #32 on: November 03, 2009, 12:41:56 PM »
Quote
It also postulates that a CIWS laser does not need to destroy incoming projectiles, it need only laser them enough to create outgassing that pushes them off course for a miss.

That's pretty much how the ABL works.  It doesn't have to destroy the IRBM/ICBM, just burn through the skin to cause a failure in the boost phase.  ;)
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AJ Dual

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Re: A reference for scifi writers
« Reply #33 on: November 03, 2009, 01:26:51 PM »
Yeah, it's kind of like if you (carefully) support your entire body weight on an empty aluminum can, then with just one finger flick a tiny dent into one side and WHAMO!  =D
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