Author Topic: how much?!!  (Read 1701 times)

cassandra and sara's daddy

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how much?!!
« on: November 28, 2009, 09:05:41 PM »
http://fredtalk.fredericksburg.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=nationalpolitics&Number=1538624&Searchpage=1&Main=1538624&Words=&topic=&Search=true#Post1538624

As in Trillion...

Congressional Democrats are using several budget gimmicks to disguise the cost of their health care overhaul, claiming the House and Senate bills would cost only (!) about $1 trillion over 10 years. Now that critics have begun to correct for those budget gimmicks, supporters of ObamaCare are firing back.

One gimmick makes the new entitlement spending appear smaller by not opening the spigot until late in the official 10-year budget window (2010–2019). Correcting for that gimmick in the Senate version, Sen. Judd Gregg (R-NH) estimates, “When all this new spending occurs” — i.e., from 2014 through 2023 — “this bill will cost $2.5 trillion over that ten-year period.”

Another gimmick pushes much of the legislation’s costs off the federal budget and onto the private sector by requiring individuals and employers to purchase health insurance. When the bills force somebody to pay $10,000 to the government, the Congressional Budget Office treats that as a tax. When the government then hands that $10,000 to private insurers, the CBO counts that as government spending. But when the bills achieve the exact same outcome by forcing somebody to pay $10,000 directly to a private insurance company, it appears nowhere in the official CBO cost estimates — neither as federal revenues nor federal spending. That’s a sharp departure from how the CBO treated similar mandates in the Clinton health plan. And it hides maybe 60 percent of the legislation’s total costs. When I correct for that gimmick, it brings total costs to roughly $2.5 trillion (i.e., $1 trillion/0.4).

Here’s where things get really ugly. TPMDC’s Brian Beutler calls “the” $2.5-trillion cost estimate a “doozy” of a “hysterical Republican whopper.” Not only is he incorrect, he doesn’t seem to realize that Gregg and I are correcting for different budget gimmicks; it’s just a coincidence that we happened to reach the same number.

When we correct for both gimmicks, counting both on- and off-budget costs over the first 10 years of implementation, the total cost of ObamaCare reaches — I’m so sorry about this — $6.25 trillion. That’s not a precise estimate. It’s just far closer to the truth than President Obama and congressional Democrats want the debate to be.

Beutler and other supporters of ObamaCare can react to this news in two ways. They can continue to deny the enormous cost of the legislation they support. Or they can question how President Obama’s health plan came to be so blessedly expensive, and how (and by whom) they were duped into thinking it wasn’t.

http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/2009/11/27/obamacares-cost-could-top-6-trillion/
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

Balog

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Re: how much?!!
« Reply #1 on: November 28, 2009, 09:43:20 PM »
I don't think there is any way this legislation can pass and not drive the US into full on default/hyperinflation/great depression part deux. We're hosed.
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: how much?!!
« Reply #2 on: November 28, 2009, 09:46:00 PM »
i didn't think there was a chance in heck obama would get elected either.  i am really concerned
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

RoadKingLarry

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Re: how much?!!
« Reply #3 on: November 28, 2009, 10:36:22 PM »
Of course it is going to pass. And, when it bankrupts the country and sneds us into a crash that will make the Great Depression look like good times it will be Bush's fault.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

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MicroBalrog

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Re: how much?!!
« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2009, 03:52:15 AM »
What we really, but really need, is a prediction thread.
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roo_ster

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Re: how much?!!
« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2009, 10:40:44 AM »
Given legislative shenanigans, this does not surprise me at all.

If it passes, "Hello euro-levels of unemployment, GDP growth, and lowered birth rates."  And, eventually, societal suicide.
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RoadKingLarry

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Re: how much?!!
« Reply #6 on: November 29, 2009, 11:40:27 AM »
Any lowering of birth rates will likely be among the producer class.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

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RocketMan

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Re: how much?!!
« Reply #7 on: November 29, 2009, 03:06:44 PM »
Given legislative shenanigans, this does not surprise me at all.

If it passes, "Hello euro-levels of unemployment, GDP growth, and lowered birth rates."  And, eventually, societal suicide.

There ain't no, "If it passes...".  It's all over but the actual voting.  Our congress critters are just going through the motions to provide themselves with what they think will be political cover come next November.
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roo_ster

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Re: how much?!!
« Reply #8 on: November 29, 2009, 04:36:22 PM »
Any lowering of birth rates will likely be among the producer class.

Yep, making the whole house fo cards even less sustainable.  You'd think social security would be an example of what NOT to do.
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roo_ster

“Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions.”
----G.K. Chesterton