Author Topic: Hurricane plus oil equals more problems  (Read 3462 times)

Desertdog

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Hurricane plus oil equals more problems
« on: May 28, 2010, 01:11:06 PM »
It looks like the people who should know how things should work out are actually saying, 'Duh, we have no idea what might happen.'  Sailors spread oil on rough seas surfaces to calm the waves.  Oil on the surface prevents water evaporation.  In rough seas, does oil mix with water and settle like a fine mist, or does it turn into tar balls asettle here and there.  Looks like the learning curve is going grow greatly over the next few years.

Hurricane plus oil equals more problems
By Lauren Russell, CNN
http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/05/27/hurricane.season.worries/

(CNN) -- A predicted busy hurricane season this summer is on a collision course with an unprecedented oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico, and the results are anyone's guess, weather experts say.

"The problem is that this is a man-made experiment we wish we hadn't made," said Jenni Evans, a professor of meteorology at Penn State University.

Scientists on Thursday said as much as 19,000 barrels of oil have been spewing every day from the BP well in the Gulf, making it the largest oil spill in U.S. history. Most of the oily water lies off the coast of Louisiana, where marshes and wildlife have been coated and the state's fishing and tourism industries have taken direct hits.

Not only is it hard to track how contaminants would be redistributed by a hurricane, but it's also hard to predict how the slick would affect the storm, NOAA Public Affairs Officer Dennis Feltgen and Evans agreed.

Evans said the storm could either move the oil along the water's surface or it could mix the oil with the water and cause it to sink. If the oil moved horizontally, the shoreline would be polluted, she said. If it moved vertically, the marine life under the surface would suffer.

The oil could slow the storm's growth, Feltgen said. Evaporated ocean water fuels hurricanes, and the oil forming a film across the Gulf could buffer the water from the air, preventing the ocean water from feeding the hurricane, he said.

But other scientists say the storms could be stronger than usual because the black oil would heat the water faster and accelerate formation of hurricanes, which rely on warm waters for their development, Evans said.

CNN meteorologist Chad Meyers said there was another threat from the volatile mix of hurricanes and oil: storm surge.

"All the winds would be coming here," he said, indicating the coast on a map, "and there would be storm surge here. All the winds would be going this way, and there would be scouring and cleaning of the beaches on this side. But the storm surge that could make its way up and bring the oil miles inland could be completely contaminating the oil inland."

Oil in the Gulf coast isn't the only worry for hurricane forecasters this year: In earthquake-devastated Haiti, roughly 1.5 million displaced people are at risk. They are living under tarps and in tents in makeshift camps.

In Haiti, aid agencies relocated about 20,000 people who were vulnerable to flooding and mudslides when the rainy season began. But it is impossible to hurricane-proof the congested tent cities that many are calling home right now, said Heather Paul, CEO of the aid program SOS Children's Villages.

Paul's program is working to provide permanent, stable homes to orphans in the form of polypropylene shelters. While her program's anchored shelters have the greatest potential to withstand strong winds, the outlook appears grim for many Port-Au-Prince residents.

"It's only short of a miracle to prepare these people for hurricane season," she said.

KD5NRH

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Re: Hurricane plus oil equals more problems
« Reply #1 on: May 29, 2010, 08:44:30 AM »


I'm getting a little tired of the "we have no idea, no reference point, to know what this is going to do to the ecosystem."  We have IXTOC and the Persian Gulf to look at.  Sure, neither of them had a hurricane, but they both had wind and waves.  Scientists extrapolate all the time, and often accurately.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2010, 08:55:03 AM by KD5NRH »

eyebrows

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Re: Hurricane plus oil equals more problems
« Reply #2 on: May 29, 2010, 08:59:42 AM »
This is about the worst scenario I can imagine.


Scout26

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Re: Hurricane plus oil equals more problems
« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2010, 06:24:02 PM »
Here's my guess:

The hurricanes will probably clean up the mess faster then man's puny and futile efforts.

I remember reading in one to the Science journals, that the part of sound that was left alone after the Exxon Valdez incident were cleaner faster then the parts that man had cleaned.  Seemed that our efforts (high pressure hoses, steam, etc) caused the oil to be pushed into the sand/rocks etc, then if we'd have left it alone natural wave action cleaned it up better.
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Hurricane plus oil equals more problems
« Reply #4 on: May 29, 2010, 07:45:41 PM »
bingo!  and the warmer water here will help the micro organisms break down the oil
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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gunsmith

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Re: Hurricane plus oil equals more problems
« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2010, 10:55:04 PM »
oooh eyebrows
that's awesome...anyone got a lighter? =D :angel:
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KD5NRH

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Re: Hurricane plus oil equals more problems
« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2010, 03:19:25 AM »
This is about the worst scenario I can imagine.



Now you've done it; there's some looney over at The Oil Drum predicting exactly this, and dismissing as unfounded opinions any counterpoints involving such things as the improbability of a sustainably flammable concentration of hydrocarbons considering the huge amount of water that's still in the gulf.

Leatherneck

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Re: Hurricane plus oil equals more problems
« Reply #7 on: June 12, 2010, 04:55:39 PM »
My gut tells me that a hurricane with all that oil in and on the water would not be a good thing for either sealife or shore life.

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MechAg94

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Re: Hurricane plus oil equals more problems
« Reply #8 on: June 12, 2010, 10:32:21 PM »
Here's my guess:

The hurricanes will probably clean up the mess faster then man's puny and futile efforts.

I remember reading in one to the Science journals, that the part of sound that was left alone after the Exxon Valdez incident were cleaner faster then the parts that man had cleaned.  Seemed that our efforts (high pressure hoses, steam, etc) caused the oil to be pushed into the sand/rocks etc, then if we'd have left it alone natural wave action cleaned it up better.
I remember also hearing that the steam hoses and stuff pretty much scoured the shore line of all life in the process of cleaning the oil.
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MechAg94

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Re: Hurricane plus oil equals more problems
« Reply #9 on: June 12, 2010, 10:43:40 PM »
The only thing I see a hurricane doing is pushing the oil around and maybe pushing it up on shore faster. 

I had heard that a lot of this oil was drifting around below the surface.  I'm not sure how a hurricane would affect that. 
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

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Re: Hurricane plus oil equals more problems
« Reply #10 on: June 12, 2010, 10:47:22 PM »
From reading and listening to folks that I believe actually know what they are talking about, a Major Hurricane would help disperse the mess and aid in clean up.  A weak Hurricane or tropical storms would have the oppisite effect. 
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grampster

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Re: Hurricane plus oil equals more problems
« Reply #11 on: June 12, 2010, 11:01:33 PM »
A huge oil slick may prevent a hurricane by staving off evaporation and wind patterns might change.
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Monkeyleg

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Re: Hurricane plus oil equals more problems
« Reply #12 on: June 12, 2010, 11:23:23 PM »
Nobody posting or being quoted/referenced in this thread knows what he's talking about. ;)

Mabs2

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Re: Hurricane plus oil equals more problems
« Reply #13 on: June 12, 2010, 11:47:03 PM »
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grampster

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Re: Hurricane plus oil equals more problems
« Reply #14 on: June 13, 2010, 12:04:07 AM »
Heh.  I sure don't know what I'm talking about.  Just wondering.  Can evaporation of sea water, or lack of it have some influence on whether a hurricane or tropical storm can evolve?  Curious me.
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zxcvbob

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Re: Hurricane plus oil equals more problems
« Reply #15 on: June 13, 2010, 12:10:35 AM »
Heh.  I sure don't know what I'm talking about.  Just wondering.  Can evaporation of sea water, or lack of it have some influence on whether a hurricane or tropical storm can evolve?  Curious me.

Yes, but they generally form as a tropical wave (?) off the coast of Africa, then move north and build.  By the time they reach the Caribbean or the Gulf of Mexico, the wind speed is already plenty fast to stir the water up and break up the surface.  If the oil has been preventing evaporation up to that point, the water will be unusually warm, so the tropical storm should go crazy. 
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Re: Hurricane plus oil equals more problems
« Reply #16 on: June 13, 2010, 09:00:51 AM »
Nobody posting or being quoted/referenced in this thread knows what he's talking about. ;)

Which qualifies them all to help run the disaster clean up!
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KD5NRH

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Re: Hurricane plus oil equals more problems
« Reply #17 on: June 14, 2010, 03:54:06 AM »
Which qualifies them all to help run the disaster clean up!

I'm still trying to figure out how to get BP to hire me as an unreliable media source; just give me any information they don't want getting out, and I'll go on the news in coveralls and recite it verbatim with a drawl.


seeker_two

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Re: Hurricane plus oil equals more problems
« Reply #18 on: June 14, 2010, 05:49:39 AM »
No....it gets even worse....



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