Author Topic: Iowa slaughterhouse immigration raids  (Read 2897 times)

BridgeRunner

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Iowa slaughterhouse immigration raids
« on: August 07, 2010, 11:07:06 PM »
Starting a thread in Politics: I think this may be a first for me.

In any case, Jamis has indicated this topic requires de-zombiefying if it's to be discussed.  Here goes:

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5h5R00na1YSmG6Twv-_-DJiToPt_AD9HDFL580 (Associated Press)

The crack team of fundraisers lawyers working the Rubashkin case are now claiming that the judge involved was not sufficiently impartial.  Their allegations include the claim that by discussing scheduling concerns before the slaughterhouse was raided, the judge was rendered partial to the prosecution.

I consider this to be a desperate attempt to keep the case going as long as possible, long after trial, conviction, and appeal (actually, I think this motion is part of the appeal, not sure).  Imho, if you're planning an immigration raid so large that it requires turning half the population of a small city into suspects held in hastily constructed camps, it is wise to check out the schedule of the judge who will end up presiding over the various appearances involved. 

In related news, Lubavitch women have been berated to behave and dress more modestly, because it is the immodesty of Lubavitch women that has brought this misfortune down the the Orthodox.  Schoolchildren are encouraged or required to pray for Rubashbin's exoneration.  The fundraising efforts are massive.  No one in a position of power in the man's community has so much as suggested that perhaps the man is in prison for a good long while because he broke a LOT of laws, quite deliberately and with the intention of crying anti-semitism if he was prosecuted. 

For the record, my sister and brother-in-law moved to Postville during the heyday of Rubashkin and my brother-in-law worked the plant for a while.  They witnessed routine violations of criminal and civil law, not to mention basic ethics on a daily basis.  I consider this to be a major problem of Hasidus, a set of sects within Orthodox Judaism where lineage is usually more important than merit, as demonstrated by the tendency of hasidic sects to pass the leadership role down within a family.  A man from a good family is afforded a whole lot more consideration and forgiveness than a man from an insignificant family.  This motion is not about the law.  When several hundred hearings are going to be showing up in a judge's courtroom, it's a good idea to let the judge know about it.  This motion is about the Lubavitch community having gotten a bee in its collective bonnet about saving Rubashkin from his own greed and bad character, because after all, "he has a wife and small children" (and is from a very good family).

White Horseradish

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Re: Iowa slaughterhouse immigration raids
« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2010, 11:39:50 PM »
In related news, Lubavitch women have been berated to behave and dress more modestly, because it is the immodesty of Lubavitch women that has brought this misfortune down the the Orthodox. 
Wait, what? Come again? Did they get some unapproved wigs or something? Or did some visiting Amish spread some wild fashions?


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BridgeRunner

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Re: Iowa slaughterhouse immigration raids
« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2010, 12:06:58 AM »
Yep.  Women who wear excessively attractive wigs or skirts that may reveal a portion of the knee when seated are a clear indicator of slackness and immorality.  In such an environment, the man was practically forced to provide false IDs to hundreds of undocumented aliens.  And when one is so dazzled by the sight of stockinged female calves, is it any wonder he had a hard time telling the difference between a 13 year old Gautamalen and an eighteen year old Iowan?

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Iowa slaughterhouse immigration raids
« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2010, 12:07:42 AM »
thanks for the info and insight  it helps to put things in context and perspective
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

MillCreek

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Re: Iowa slaughterhouse immigration raids
« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2010, 12:20:25 AM »
Yep.  Women who wear excessively attractive wigs or skirts that may reveal a portion of the knee when seated are a clear indicator of slackness and immorality. 

I have noticed in other religious settings in which it is always the women who have caused some sort of downfall, usually as the result of their loose morals.  I am not smart enough to figure out why this is, but find it interesting that it is usually the women's fault.  I wonder if, in matriarchal religions, it is the fault of the men.
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Balog

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Re: Iowa slaughterhouse immigration raids
« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2010, 12:49:06 AM »
Are there any existant matriarchal religions?
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Iowa slaughterhouse immigration raids
« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2010, 01:15:25 AM »
I have noticed in other religious settings in which it is always the women who have caused some sort of downfall, usually as the result of their loose morals.  I am not smart enough to figure out why this is, but find it interesting that it is usually the women's fault.  I wonder if, in matriarchal religions, it is the fault of the men.

I have noticed that, if any blame at all is assigned to women, this becomes fodder for religious misogynists on the one side, and for anti-religious misandrists on the other.  On this head, we recall that Adam and Eve were both blamed and both punished for eating the fruit.

All that being said, if women are rebuked for dressing immodestly, one ought not automatically assume that men are not being rebuked for lusting after them.  Whether this is the case in the Orthodox communities under discussion, I do not know.  


Ya know, this thread has a lot of built-in potential for drift.  =)
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BridgeRunner

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Re: Iowa slaughterhouse immigration raids
« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2010, 01:37:13 AM »
I have noticed that, if any blame at all is assigned to women, this becomes fodder for religious misogynists on the one side, and for anti-religious misandrists on the other.  On this head, we recall that Adam and Eve were both blamed and both punished for eating the fruit.

All that being said, if women are rebuked for dressing immodestly, one ought not automatically assume that men are not being rebuked for lusting after them.  Whether this is the case in the Orthodox communities under discussion, I do not know.  


Ya know, this thread has a lot of built-in potential for drift.  =)

Uh, the problem here has nothing to do with lustfulness at all, and everything to do with one guy deciding to make a LOT of money by wantonly breaking a LOT of laws.  Blaming it on the women is a handy PR approach to diverting public attention to something unrelated to the actual convict having broken a lot of laws (of God, man, and the FedGov) for the express purpose of making a LOT of money, from which he tithed to the Lubavitch machine. 

I don't care if men are being berated for the uncontrollable lust they inevitable experience upon seeing a particularly shiny wig.  First, they haven't. 

Second, it still would not have a thing to do with the fact that Rubashkin broke the laws, Rubashkin collected the profits, and the blame for having done so lies solely with Rubashkin, not some woman in Crown Heights who gets a thrill out of wearing a 22" skirt. 

Rubashkin did some bad stuff, and the PR campaign has avoided dealing with that fact by turning it into attacks on women for their "immodest" wigs and knee-length skirts.  I find that deplorable.

But of course, once again, you stand firmly for the knee-jerk defense of any foolishness perpetrated by any religious and male establishment, out of some imagined bond of shared male religiosity, complete with the oft-repeated insistence that religious men are are somehow the victims, what with the y'know, most sane people thinking they're nuts and all.  How dare we be so intolerant?

White Horseradish

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Re: Iowa slaughterhouse immigration raids
« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2010, 07:34:47 AM »
Yep.  Women who wear excessively attractive wigs or skirts that may reveal a portion of the knee when seated are a clear indicator of slackness and immorality.  In such an environment, the man was practically forced to provide false IDs to hundreds of undocumented aliens.  And when one is so dazzled by the sight of stockinged female calves, is it any wonder he had a hard time telling the difference between a 13 year old Gautamalen and an eighteen year old Iowan?
Aw, I'm sure they all look the same to those guys... :) How can you tell those people apart when they won't even dress the same? :)
Political tags - such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and so forth - are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire.

Robert A Heinlein

Perd Hapley

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Re: Iowa slaughterhouse immigration raids
« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2010, 10:31:53 AM »
Uh, the problem here has nothing to do with lustfulness at all, and everything to do with one guy deciding to make a LOT of money by wantonly breaking a LOT of laws.  Blaming it on the women is a handy PR approach to diverting public attention to something unrelated to the actual convict having broken a lot of laws (of God, man, and the FedGov) for the express purpose of making a LOT of money, from which he tithed to the Lubavitch machine.  

I don't care if men are being berated for the uncontrollable lust they inevitable experience upon seeing a particularly shiny wig.  First, they haven't.  

Second, it still would not have a thing to do with the fact that Rubashkin broke the laws, Rubashkin collected the profits, and the blame for having done so lies solely with Rubashkin, not some woman in Crown Heights who gets a thrill out of wearing a 22" skirt.  

Rubashkin did some bad stuff, and the PR campaign has avoided dealing with that fact by turning it into attacks on women for their "immodest" wigs and knee-length skirts.  I find that deplorable.

I never disagreed with any of that. I was responding to MillCreek.


Quote
But of course, once again, you stand firmly for the knee-jerk defense of any foolishness perpetrated by any religious and male establishment, out of some imagined bond of shared male religiosity, complete with the oft-repeated insistence that religious men are are somehow the victims, what with the y'know, most sane people thinking they're nuts and all.  How dare we be so intolerant?
Please cite any instance of such knee-jerking from yours truly.  Please also point out where, in this thread, I described "religious men" as victims.

I might also point out that I am an American evangelical. Anyone remotely familiar with American evangelicalism will be amused by the notion that it is some kind of male-dominated patriarchy where women have no say.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2010, 11:06:02 AM by Fistful »
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Hawkmoon

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Re: Iowa slaughterhouse immigration raids
« Reply #10 on: August 08, 2010, 10:54:01 AM »
I don't think we can discuss lusting in this thread. Didn't former President James Earl (call me "Jimmeh") Carter copyright that bit?
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BridgeRunner

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Re: Iowa slaughterhouse immigration raids
« Reply #11 on: August 08, 2010, 04:22:42 PM »
Please cite any instance of such knee-jerking from yours truly.

Nope.  I don't play citation games.  We both know you play those games, so why waste the effort?

Jamisjockey

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Re: Iowa slaughterhouse immigration raids
« Reply #12 on: August 08, 2010, 04:26:47 PM »
The thread drift and attacks aren't working for me.
JD

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