i am not a nice man

[HeroHog]

If more people who truly deserved it were punished in this way, it would surely reduce the crime rates in that area! The dope peddlers wouldn't be so bold anymore and the buyers would be scared to buy. Only when there are REAL negative consequences for one's bad actions does there follow a decrease in that behavior. The laws have to have some teeth to work.

[Iain]

Hmmm.

I do wonder if that story is as it appears. Those who have mostly turned away from bombings have not gone away. I'll check with my nordie friends, but I believe the 'positive' coverage the IRA has got for their dealings with dealers is more about defending their business interests.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

wasn't this a loyalist action? not ira?

[Iain]

Didn't mean to be so specific as to write IRA alone, meant to add /loyalists.

Dunno much about this case specifically. Will ask if I get a chance.

[AJ Dual]

Didn't mean to be so specific as to write IRA alone, meant to add /loyalists.

Dunno much about this case specifically. Will ask if I get a chance.

I do think the one criminal whiner towards the end of the article who opined that he believed there were those in the vigilante groups from the various Loyalist and IRA militias who just "Really, really, REALLY liked violence", was more than a little insightful, and probably somewhat true.

Although as long as it's being done to the "right people" I don't see the problem.  

I know... I know.. the whole "slippery slope" problem and all. But when the .gov is not doing enough about crime, that "slippery slope" runs right in the other direction too.  

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

I do think the one criminal whiner towards the end of the article who opined that he believed there were those in the vigilante groups from the various Loyalist and IRA militias who just "Really, really, REALLY liked violence", was more than a little insightful, and probably somewhat true.



yes  sadly and some like not having to have a real job

[Iain]

The problem is if all they're doing is eliminating competition. It looks good to a lot of the general public, and you get the 'Things were better under Ronnie and Reggie' phenomenon, but in the end violent criminals are still running the show.

There are a number of people in Northern Ireland with certain, 'skillsets', without the political outlet at the moment.

I will ask about this at some point, there are a lot of nordies on my rugby forum, and they love nothing better than talking about themselves. You've not seen threadjacking like it here.

[AJ Dual]

Still "not good" but it has parallels with the Mafia and organized crime here in the U.S.

Was it violent? Sure. Did nasty things happen to people? Sure. Did it foster corruption in municipal politics? Absolutely.

OTOH, it was still worlds better than the more random and distributed nature of 'street crime', where everyone/anyone could be a victim.

Save for shakedown/protection tributes, the common folk were left alone, and even somewhat protected by the system, since the organized crime syndicate had just as little love for random criminals than the police did, and no scruples or rules to follow when it came to dealing with them.

Was it "good" per-se? No, of course not.

OTOH, little old ladies and children were safe outside after dark.

Robert Heinlein made some of the same arguments in some of his works. Of course, he was explaining 1910's Kansas City to his newly made girl-clones sister/daughters (that he'd had sex with) while traveling back in time on his space-ship to see his mother (who he'd have sex with..) So maybe not the absolute best endorsement of organized crime vs. random street crime. 

[MicroBalrog]

I know... I know.. the whole "slippery slope" problem and all. But when the .gov is not doing enough about crime, that "slippery slope" runs right in the other direction too.  undecided[/uote]

Frankly, there's absolutely no justification for victimless crime laws to exist in the first place.

But even if we allow them to exist, there's no moral justification to just flip out and physically attack and beat on people just for selling a product you disapprove of.

Especially since we do not even know if these lynchers [there is a name for this sort of activty] had the right guy.

[AJ Dual]

I know... I know.. the whole "slippery slope" problem and all. But when the .gov is not doing enough about crime, that "slippery slope" runs right in the other direction too.  undecided[/uote]

Frankly, there's absolutely no justification for victimless crime laws to exist in the first place.

But even if we allow them to exist, there's no moral justification to just flip out and physically attack and beat on people just for selling a product you disapprove of.

Especially since we do not even know if these lynchers [there is a name for this sort of activty] had the right guy.

We're in agreement here on that. The harder .gov squeezes on some things, the worse the crime-side of slippery-slopedom gets worse. I already posted that drug legalization would have ended distribution (of potentially lethal doses) to minors, the ancillary crime the artificially high price prohibition creates, and left them more time (and tar) for rapists and child molesters on the first page. 

[Iain]

I'm very familiar with the Ronnie and Reggie thing, recently read an article about the yakuza and it seems it runs that way there too.

The real issue that immediately occurs to me is that where you have an adequately functioning legal system and government, if you develop an issue with those with power you at least have a hope of getting it resolved. I'd rather deal with that than with some crime boss, even if the 'on this, the day of my daughter's wedding' stuff is true.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/7990390.stm - just an example from last year

Just realised the Daily Mail article is over three years old, the guys I know probably won't remember specifics.

[280plus]

Interesting read...

[230RN]

That remark about "vigilante justice" sounds like it was one of those obligatory add-ons by an editor.

I felt the same thing about a couple of other sentences in the story.