Author Topic: Autism-Vaccine Link Study a Fraud  (Read 5446 times)

Iain

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Re: Autism-Vaccine Link Study a Fraud
« Reply #25 on: January 06, 2011, 04:25:33 PM »
The interesting thing about this one was the diversity of those that fell hard for it, and their reasons for doing so. I'm not talking about those who umed and ahed about getting their kid a shot, I actually understand that, and suspect that my very cold eyed assessment of the risks might not fully withstand the subject being my own child.

I'm talking about those who went off the deep end all over the internet. There's quite a strong anti-medicine sentiment out there, plenty of my friends have major aversions to doctors, my brother's girlfriend had a chest infection and a fever before Christmas and had to be cajoled into taking paracetamol. There's the Big Pharma conspiracy that runs the political spectrum, particularly the left as strain of anti-corporatism. The libertarian right and the personal freedom angle. The earth-mothers, and the she-bear mothers. There's a lot of suspicion of science in general too, but not a suspicion that lasts in the face of one study with 12 subjects that confirms everything they ever suspected. Also suspect that we massively underestimate the amount of conspiracy theorists out there, the persistence of such myths as 'methadone was invented in Germany in 1937 and was called dolophine and was named after Hitler' demonstrates that.

If you're at all interested it's worth perusing the posts on the matter that Orac at Respectful Insolence has made.

As far as the perception angle, not the stats, goes - Bridgewalker is right about de-institionalisation too. I've heard the comment about there being more disabled people out there, especially kids. Well, that's because many more of the kids are going to more mainstream schooling, and the adults aren't residing in places like Lea Castle (old place near me that I believe at one point was the biggest disabled institution in Europe). I've got several colleagues who might well have been institutionalised a generation ago. I'm doing a piece of work at the moment with some people who have lost a charity run day centre, real old fashioned sit and colour in type place, well meaning though. They're now finding that those sorts of daycentres don't exist any more, and for better or worse they'll have less provision and more time in the community.

Always tell people that if they want to truly understand how much disability is out there they need to go to cheap warm cafes on workdays. Go to the same one a few times and you'll see the same faces, and you'll quickly spot less obvious disabilities, including a lot of mental health issues. Those people aren't generally out in the evenings, or the weekends when the rest of us are.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2011, 04:32:06 PM by Iain »
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Autism-Vaccine Link Study a Fraud
« Reply #26 on: January 06, 2011, 04:53:43 PM »
great post Iain.  i see a lot of "lightly disabled " folks in self help group meetings.  sometimes it take a while but then it becomes clear why "johnny" can't keep a job. i think we get more folks diagnosed in order to qualify for assistance.  we also have fewer small family firms where "uncle andy" can be found a safe niche in which to work.

its annoying to me how some docs are so quick to pull the trigger to get some guy signed up for disability. i know of many for whom thats been the kiss of death, well intentioned though it was.  my lil bro could get disability probably near 100%  instead he is a much happier soul working being around other folks  and i might add been employee of the year in several places hes worked
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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CNYCacher

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Re: Autism-Vaccine Link Study a Fraud
« Reply #27 on: January 06, 2011, 05:15:14 PM »
No, I don't mean to imply it was an STD.  I don't understand the confusion.  Genetic mutations will propagate through the population over time because we tend to breed outside of our own families.

The confusion lies in the fact that you are taking me seriously  =D
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Tallpine

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Re: Autism-Vaccine Link Study a Fraud
« Reply #28 on: January 06, 2011, 05:26:50 PM »
Quote
plenty of my friends have major aversions to doctors

Count me among those, even if not a friend.

But it's an aversion well earned in my case  :mad:
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Strings

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Re: Autism-Vaccine Link Study a Fraud
« Reply #29 on: January 06, 2011, 06:28:36 PM »
Tallpine: did the doc drop you as a baby? :P

I remember my fun with "misdiagnosis".

Was sick, taken to the doctor (I was 6 or 7 at the time). They did blood work, came back as leukemia...

Second set of blood work came back the same.

As mom and dad were making arrangements to go around the world (figuring to show me the world before I left it), a third set of blood tests was done.

Mononucleosis. I had freaking mono.

The doctor (Russian guy, had pics on his walls of him shaking hands with Brezhnev) went absolutely ape on the lab folks...
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BridgeRunner

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Re: Autism-Vaccine Link Study a Fraud
« Reply #30 on: January 06, 2011, 06:34:26 PM »
Hey, I was diagnosed with "depression" so severe and intractable I was considering a cutting-edge new procedure involving implanting electronics.  This diagnosis was not questioned for ten years, by any of four or five psychiatrists.  Yeah, ADHD meds cured it.  Talk about misdiagnosis...

But all in all I am less bothered by doctors than I used to be.  Even had my second kid in a hospital, once the homebirth concept stopped working out well.

Jocassee

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Re: Autism-Vaccine Link Study a Fraud
« Reply #31 on: January 06, 2011, 06:42:09 PM »
I have a general suspicion of doctors and meds in general. Partly on account of being Scots-Irish and stubborn and stingy (no health insurance). I haven't missed a day of work in years. Can't afford to. I don't even like to take an HOUR from work to see the doctor.
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White Horseradish

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Re: Autism-Vaccine Link Study a Fraud
« Reply #32 on: January 06, 2011, 07:05:28 PM »
Well, I am not anti-medicine, but doctors piss me off often. They hardly look at you, toss a prescription at you and move on.

A friend of mine's baby had diaper rash. They prescribed cortisone and antibiotics for it. It's freaking diaper rash, but no, we gotta have antibiotics.

My mother in law got such a cocktail of pills going she couldn't hold a conversation. Half the stuff she was prescribed was absolutely irrelevant to her condition, but the doctors didn't bother to check and just continued prescribing until we did some research and made a stink about it. "Oh, sorry, we thought the previous doc knew what he was doing". Part of this was that when she mentioned she was a little down in the dumps because of being far from the grandkids they decided to fix it with antidepressants.

Another time she developed persistent heartburn. The first doctor said it was a tumor, she would need to have her stomach removed and intestines re-routed. The best was that he said the benefit would be that she would lose weight. Second opinion revealed the tumor to be small and benign and the whole thing was taken care of by laparoscopy and she was home in a day with no disruption to her diet.

As far as vaccinations, what irritates me is the way they push to have all of them done at the same time. I am wary of this because when I was a kid and got multiple ones in one go I always got sick immediately after. There is absolutely no medical downside to getting the shots a few weeks apart, and if it makes the parent (me) feel better, why the hell not? But no, we have to have a lecture about how harmless the three shots at a time thing is.

I am also not exactly pleased that I just had to have my broken ankle redone completely three weeks after the first surgery. Apparently, the original hardware wasn't right.
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Iain

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Re: Autism-Vaccine Link Study a Fraud
« Reply #33 on: January 06, 2011, 07:22:49 PM »
great post Iain.  i see a lot of "lightly disabled " folks in self help group meetings.  sometimes it take a while but then it becomes clear why "johnny" can't keep a job. i think we get more folks diagnosed in order to qualify for assistance.  we also have fewer small family firms where "uncle andy" can be found a safe niche in which to work.

its annoying to me how some docs are so quick to pull the trigger to get some guy signed up for disability. i know of many for whom thats been the kiss of death, well intentioned though it was.  my lil bro could get disability probably near 100%  instead he is a much happier soul working being around other folks  and i might add been employee of the year in several places hes worked

It's a huge attitude shift, on both sides. In fairness, the reason a lot of daycentres have closed over here is because there has been no new intake for a generation, users of those services are generally in their 40s and above. Expectations were different, and I'm now meeting quite disabled people with jobs, living independently, and that's the aspiration. It's not always a cheaper way of doing things from the perspective of the state, but it is seen as the right way to do things.

Did a very brief stint teaching basic skills, numeracy and literacy, to unemployed adults. What was depressing was that the same people were on an endless cycle of referral from the dole office to those courses and back again. The simple reason being that there was a lot of learning disability in that group, and they were mostly 45+. A lot of those people had jobs at one time, but the decline of manufacturing here has seen a lot of very unskilled jobs disappear. In many instances those jobs were what you describe - really a form of social support on the part of business owners. They weren't great jobs, but my friend P___ was much happier working at Longbridge than he has ever been in the years since.

The way that our employment based disability benefit (incapacity benefit, now employment and support allowance) has been reformed in recent years has said all the right things, but clients I'm in contact with are not having the greatest experiences so far.
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Iain

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Re: Autism-Vaccine Link Study a Fraud
« Reply #34 on: January 06, 2011, 07:33:52 PM »
In the context of the paragraph, the sort of wariness I meant is the sort that has developed into a view of doctors as Mengele-wannabes, pumping us with weird stuff to see what happens. Shills for Big Pharma.

I get general wariness, I wasn't diagnosed for 14 years so I'm well aware they stuff up. However, that has to be tempered with the knowledge that when my doctor tells me to get a flu jab s/he is doing so with my very best interests at heart - bog standard flu has been known to kill healthy patients like me. That has to be remembered when they prescribe me antibiotics that can very rarely cause fatal aplastic anemia. The assessment of the risk is that the chest infections need treating, and if I'm unlucky enough to get aplastic anemia, that's just a horrible tragedy that couldn't have been avoided.
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Pharmacology

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Re: Autism-Vaccine Link Study a Fraud
« Reply #35 on: January 10, 2011, 11:18:16 AM »
Quote
Although the liver toxicitiy is well known. Hell they put it into Oxycodone and Hydrocodone to try and prevent abuse. So now abusers just ruin their livers with Acetometaphin. Real smart.  Face Palm!

PharmD student here:

That's not really accurate.

tyme

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Re: Autism-Vaccine Link Study a Fraud
« Reply #36 on: January 10, 2011, 01:45:25 PM »
I had never heard of this flawed study or its claims.  The mainstream criticism of vaccines in the last decade has centered on thiomersal and whether it causes autism.  That campaign has had relative success, to the extent that it's now rare to see thiomersal as a preservative in vaccines, particularly vaccines for children.

Wakefield's discredited paper apparently focused on studying whether a combination of weakened viruses in the MMR vaccine could cause problems.[1]  That it was a fraud does not address the separate concern about toxic preservatives, or any other possible negative impact of vaccines.

Many scientists (who don't deal primarily with medical science) widely recognize that studies published in medical journals are a joke.  Biased sampling, failure to establish adequate controls, multiple hypotheses/multiple outcomes... the list goes on.  However, some of those problems are intractable because of the nature of scientific research on humans.

[1] http://autism.about.com/od/causesofautism/a/MMRVaccine.htm
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