did you know there were okc bombing troofers?

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

i never hear of em till recently  fascinating sub genus   we had one run for office out my way

[AJ Dual]

Yeah.. all the ATF was out of the office that day. They had devices/explosives in their arms lockers etc.  Blah blah.

I had almost forgotten about it.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

it was a fascinating read  even have one oklahoma pol as their leader  and he got reelected

[Regolith]

I knew there was a conspiracy theory about whether or not a certain middle eastern country was involved, but I hadn't heard about this one.

Makes sense, I guess.  People who wear tinfoil hats generally aren't all that creative...the beanie tends to cut off blood flow to the brain. 

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

true  many are dual diagnosis  also birthers and 911 troofers as well. our local one came with in 7 points of making it to congress shes the one who got fame for her ballot box/bullet box speech

[seeker_two]

One theory I've heard was that ATF was staked out to catch McVeigh and Co. in the act, but goofed up and missed him....and I can't say, considering the ATF's typical competence quotent, that I find it hard to believe.....

....only cover-up at OKC could be to cover up ATF incompetence....

Here's another take on OKC....not one I endorse, but does bring up some interesting thoughts....

http://www.jaynadavis.com/highlights.html

[TommyGunn]

troofers?

   I gather you mean "truthers."

Took me a minute for my brain to engage .........

Somewhere I heard that it was known McVeigh used more than just ammonium nitrate + fuel oil for his bombs, but the govt. suppressed it because they didn't want to give the recipe out to copycatters.
That may have worked, but it inadvertantly spawned conspiracy theories, especially when one air force officer who was very familiar with explosives said he didn't believe the ANFO bomb alone would create that much damage.
Others have claimed there were other bombs, and there has also been a dispute about a mysterious Suspect X who was seen leaving the truck with McVeigh but who was never identified.  This story was supposedly later debunked as a misidentification by a store owner or something ...
There's a lot about the Murrah bombing I don't know about and question.  I wish my father had lived long enough to go through that experience as he had been Navy U.D.T. in the Korean War and thus knew a LOT about explosives and what they could do, and he was one person I knew who would give me the straight dope on it without loading it up with wild@ssed conspiracy theories.
I have never really trusted the BATF and I would not be surprised if it were to be revealed this was some kind of sting that had backfired.  I am however pretty sure that there would have been no attack on the Murrah Building if there had been no Waco attack.  Not saying McVeigh was in any way justified, I AM saying WACO was McVeigh's motive for Murrah.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

since the oklahoma pol who is into conspiracy gets reelected i'd be interested in hearing why.  do folks out there buy his theories?  or  do his other qualities make up for them?

[French G.]

That's the problem with conspiracy theories, sometimes there is substance. I have no problem believing that McVeigh set off something. He had help. The speed at which McVeigh was executed is alone enough to give pause. Gen Partin says BS, my father that worked a lifetime in quarry heavy equip around anfo blasters says BS, there is lots of BS there. I'd just like to see a free and independent inquiry, especially residue analysis of the quickly buried rubble.

That said, I understand the hate for troofers. The 9/11 troofers, I'd like to punch them in the mouth. That was one of the most thoroughly filmed and analyzed tragedies ever. The only argument that holds any water is the CIA had foreknowledge( a lot less specific than the nuts claim) and failed to act.

[Perd Hapley]

Here's another take on OKC....not one I endorse, but does bring up some interesting thoughts....

http://www.jaynadavis.com/highlights.html

I'd like to read her book one of these days. I've heard her on the radio a number of times, and she doesn't sound like a conspiracy nut.

[230RN]

I think there's a conspiracy against conspiracy theorists.

That's what I think.

Seriously, I believe this is another example of how the "vast left wing conspiracy" has controlled the language and semantics.  Control that, and you control opinion.

Just notice how "conspiracy theorizing" has been semantically linked with wackos and UFOlogists.

Yet, formulating an alternative explanation for occurences and gathering evidence for and against it has another name.

Terry, 230RN

[seeker_two]

I think there's a conspiracy against conspiracy theorists.

That's what I think.

....and I think there's some truth to that....if you don't believe the "official account", then it seems that you're the target for character assasination. Whatever happened to critical thinking skills?.....

[HankB]

Quite a few government actions have only spurred conspiracy theories . . .

* The Murrah building's remains seemed to be demolished with unusual haste for a crime scene . . .
* Normally credible people with explosives experience said the damage wasn't consistent with what an amateur's ANFO bomb would have produced . . .
* When death row inmates can languish for 20 years while their appeals are processed, McVeigh was executed rather quickly . . .
* The BATmen were out of the office that day . . .

And if you go back to Waco - supposedly McVeigh's motivation -

* Fed.gov insisted that nothing they did could have caused the fire. Yet pictures proved that they'd fired the type of tear gas rounds that burn.
* Fed.gov said that the Davidians had fired through the metal-clad front door at the raid team. Yet after the fire, the door was taken away as "evidence" . . . and was never seen again, despite demands that fed.gov produce it at the trial of the surviving Davidians.

etc. etc.

What's the real story? I don't know. A sting gone bad seems more plausible than some of the wilder theories, but the people who do know - whoever they may be - aren't talking. So others speculate . . . and each theorist tries to outdo previous theorists . . . and the conspiracy theories get wilder and wilder. Which, of course, only serves to obscure the real story.

Whatever it is.

[Waitone]

Questioning official accounts of an incident is not "conspiracy".  It is smart.  Another example of how control of the language is so important. 

[gunsmith]

One theory I've heard was that ATF was staked out to catch McVeigh and Co. in the act, but goofed up and missed him....and I can't say, considering the ATF's typical competence quotent, that I find it hard to believe.....

....only cover-up at OKC could be to cover up ATF incompetence....

Here's another take on OKC....not one I endorse, but does bring up some interesting thoughts....

http://www.jaynadavis.com/highlights.html

I had heard about Iraqi connections, that article is pretty good. I doubt after all this time we will ever find out the entire truth. I wouldn't have a hard time believing McViegh had help from middle easterners

[Jocassee]

There is a book coming out soon that will deal with some of this stuff.

The version I heard from someone who was intimately familiar with the details is that the ATF got sloppy--intentionally or not--in their handling of a sting operation and allowed the bombing to go ahead.

Seeing as how there more informants in Elohim City than were actually Aryan Nations goons (I exaggerate only slightly--this later led to the arrest of some key members on bank robbery charges) it is hard to believe that the ATF did not at least have an idea of what was going on.

[Perd Hapley]

I had heard about Iraqi connections, that article is pretty good. I doubt after all this time we will ever find out the entire truth. I wouldn't have a hard time believing McViegh had help from middle easterners

I believe, in Davis's account, McVeigh was the help; the Mid-Easters were the principals.

[TommyGunn]

There is a book coming out soon that will deal with some of this stuff.

The version I heard from someone who was intimately familiar with the details is that the ATF got sloppy--intentionally or not--in their handling of a sting operation and allowed the bombing to go ahead.

Seeing as how there more informants in Elohim City than were actually Aryan Nations goons (I exaggerate only slightly--this later led to the arrest of some key members on bank robbery charges) it is hard to believe that the ATF did not at least have an idea of what was going on.

One joke I heard concerning the militia movement of the time was that ½ of the average militia were ATF agents ...spying on the other ½ of the militia .... who were actually FBI agents undercover to spy on the militia ....

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

there was a conspiracy case at the univ of maryland in the late 60's early 70's tossed out because 2 of the 3 conspirators were cops each unaware of the other

along that same line in 81 there was a friend of mine busted for small time dealing.  they asked him to give up someone if he wanted to walk.  we knew they had a narc working our crowd  and who he was  so that was who he gave up.  they had to take it or blow his cover.  was most amusing.  the way we knew he was a narc?  he was young and male and we had a friend young female and smoking hot.  he told her as pillow talk