Author Topic: More post-humanisim: I know Micro and I are like broken records on this, but...  (Read 2295 times)

AJ Dual

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http://gizmodo.com/5813821/scientists-create-first-memory-expansion-for-brain

The more technical meaty version.. http://www.neural-prosthesis.com/

At this point it's still obviously quite crude, but the basic mechanism has been created. We now have the capability of two way communication of information from the brain.

If you expand on the concept, and more of "you" is in the machine someday than in your head, or you can wholesale swap memories, knowledge, or skills, it brings up interesting questions about personhood, identity, and individuality.

I promise not to duck.

Doggy Daddy

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I know Micro and I are like broken records on this

So then, can we call you "Skippy?"   =D

DD
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for a lead role in a cage?
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MechAg94

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First, it is the memory, then comes the Wifi connection and internet in your head, then comes the spam and viruses. 

The other question, if they can help you remember, can they insert memories or is it only memories you put in them?
β€œIt is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

Doggy Daddy

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Can I buy an 8 gig Sandisk Cruzer with the best vacation I never took on it?   >:D  How about a permanent implant with Bluetooth connectivity, and I can change the password just by thinking about it.

DD
Would you exchange
a walk-on part in a war
for a lead role in a cage?
-P.F.

41magsnub

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Soon you will want an implanted memory of a vacation to Mars...

Tallpine

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Flip the switch on, and the rats remember. Flip it off, and the rats forget

Won't that be convenient...?  ;/








I'd just like to be able to remember where I left my car keys  ;)
Freedom is a heavy load, a great and strange burden for the spirit to undertake. It is not easy. It is not a gift given, but a choice made, and the choice may be a hard one. The road goes upward toward the light; but the laden traveller may never reach the end of it.  - Ursula Le Guin

griz

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does rule #34 apply to this?
Sent from a stone age computer via an ordinary keyboard.

MicroBalrog

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This seems to be like a very, very crude technology which does not quite work yet, and it is not clear it will work.

Also: remember Neal Stephenson's Interface?
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

Lanius

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Stross has an interesting essay on singularity..or why it won't happen. IMO a good one.. mostly.

This passage should stir up debate hereabouts..I think..

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I periodically get email from folks who, having read "Accelerando", assume I am some kind of fire-breathing extropian zealot who believes in the imminence of the singularity, the uploading of the libertarians, and the rapture of the nerds. I find this mildly distressing, and so I think it's time to set the record straight and say what I really think.

Short version: Santa Claus doesn't exist.

Long version:

I'm going to take it as read that you've read Vernor Vinge's essay on the coming technological singularity (1993), are familiar with Hans Moravec's concept of mind uploading, and know about Nick Bostrom's Simulation argument. If not, stop right now and read them before you continue with this piece. Otherwise you're missing out on the fertilizer in which the whole field of singularitarian SF, not to mention posthuman thought, is rooted. It's probably a good idea to also be familiar with Extropianism and to have read the posthumanism FAQ, because if you haven't you'll have missed out on the salient social point that posthumanism has a posse.

(In passing, let me add that I am not an extropian, although I've hung out on and participated in their online discussions since the early 1990s. I'm definitely not a libertarian: economic libertarianism is based on the same reductionist view of human beings as rational economic actors as 19th century classical economics β€” a drastic over-simplification of human behaviour. Like Communism, Libertarianism is a superficially comprehensive theory of human behaviour that is based on flawed axioms* and, if acted upon, would result in either failure or a hellishly unpleasant state of post-industrial feudalism.)

But anyway ...

*Imo.. deserves a separate thread perhaps. I mean, people are definitely not rational actors**, and while I don't think libertarianism assumes they are... maybe some people do.

**supposedly, only psychopaths and economists behave always like rational actors..

AJ Dual

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So then, can we call you "Skippy?"   =D

DD

Checks user name... I already thought I was..  =(

First, it is the memory, then comes the Wifi connection and internet in your head, then comes the spam and viruses. 

The other question, if they can help you remember, can they insert memories or is it only memories you put in them?

Only memories put into them so far. As far as I can tell, reading the abstracts etc. the neural interface just records, and creates virtual neural connections that the living neurons can receive signals back from. There's no mechanism for knowing what the connections mean, or exactly what they do. So therefore there's no way to re-arrange them to mean something else.. yet.

And I suspect that if you imposed a connection set into the chip, and just hooked it up to a brain, there's no telling how the living neurons will interpret the signal. For all we know, it could take a set of pre-made connections that were intended to be a memory of an image and impressions of a beach scene, and decide to use that pattern to represent the smell of chocolate.

While we're starting to get some ideas about the signals and paths for various processes like vision, hearing, and can even do differential MRI scans and map out the connections and paths for various kinds of thoughts, we're not even close to understanding a 1:1 relationship for various concepts, or sensations. Or even if everyone has the same low level language going on in our wiring. Or when we do set up interfaces, if we're truly even sending the right signals in these interface experiments, it's almost complete garbage, but the brain is really doing 99% of the work and just sorting it all out.

However, this is a start.

Some other interesting stuff: http://www.technovelgy.com/ct/Science-Fiction-News.asp?NewsNum=241 (over 6 years old now... but still interesting)

http://wapedia.mobi/en/Brain%E2%80%93computer_interface (Scroll down to section 2.2. First ever images (AFAIK) actually pulled out of a cat's vision processing center, as it was fed images real-time on a screen.)

Even better ones with some animated gif's of what the cats saw. http://www.biotele.com/vision.html

Even cooler, taking the data at different points in the vision stream between the eye, and the visual cortex offers some suggestion that neural "preprocessing" in a cat's retinas and optic nerves key in on a cat-face interpretation of human faces first, before seeing what is actually there, in this case, the face of one of the scientists.

Which obviously begs the question how much preprocessing do human brains and sense systems do too?  And how much that we think is based in our cognition, is really just reflexive expert systems feeding us predigested data of what we expect to see. This has been suspected for some time, due to pictures and faces in clouds, optical illusions etc., however, to see it in actual data taken in situ from another mammal's brain is amazing.

 
« Last Edit: June 22, 2011, 04:45:04 PM by AJ Dual »
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MicroBalrog

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*Imo.. deserves a separate thread perhaps. I mean, people are definitely not rational actors**, and while I don't think libertarianism assumes they are... maybe some people do.

Strauss' understanding of libertairanism is hilariously flawed.
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

ramis

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Lanius

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Stross's understanding of libertairanism is hilariously flawed.
You should hear him on gun control. Alarming that someone who has written such a number of good books and who has a lot of good ideas is so..off in certain things.



KD5NRH

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Only memories put into them so far. As far as I can tell, reading the abstracts etc. the neural interface just records, and creates virtual neural connections that the living neurons can receive signals back from. There's no mechanism for knowing what the connections mean, or exactly what they do.

This is fascinating enough to me; now we can grab a good chunk of raw neural data and play with it to figure out the format...or have a starting point for the best encryption ever.

I'm curious if they tried copying from one rat to another to see if the encoding is consistent.  That alone would be a really valuable trick.  Presumably it would still be raw data without understanding, but bypassing the rote memorization step could revolutionize a lot of learning.