Author Topic: Battery capacity and amp hours  (Read 5526 times)

never_retreat

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Battery capacity and amp hours
« on: September 03, 2011, 12:09:24 PM »
I have a very large battery back up sump pump the the previous owner installed. Good thing.
According to the book it draws 20 amps.
http://www.trustywarns.com/index.htm
The battery that I have is not big enough. Not sure on the size but car size.
I want to replace it with a bigger one, but I don't know how to size it to judge runtime.
I was thinking something like a 8D truck battery but they don't give an amp rating only amp's. An 8d is 1400 amps.
How long would the battery run the pump?
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Triphammer

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Re: Battery capacity and amp hours
« Reply #1 on: September 03, 2011, 12:17:29 PM »
you'll want to use depp cycle batteries. Deep cycle are built for deep discharge that will damage even heavy duty truck batteries. Starting ( truck) batteries are built for high amperage short duration discharge & immediate recharge. Deep cycles are rated in amp hours & figuring run time is a simple matter of dividing rated amp hours by load in amps. A 20 amp load on an 80 Ah bttery will run four hours to complete discharge. You don't want to do that often but it will work.

never_retreat

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Re: Battery capacity and amp hours
« Reply #2 on: September 03, 2011, 12:24:04 PM »
I was thinking deep cycle also. I believe they make them in the bigger sizes. At least I remember trying to get one of those 200 lb behemoths into a boat once.
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zxcvbob

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Re: Battery capacity and amp hours
« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2011, 12:46:58 PM »
Walmart (and I assume Sam's Club) sells 6V deep-cycle #27 batteries.  115 A·Hrs.  Buy 2 of them and put them in series to get 12V.  Or 4 or 6 of them in a series/parallel arrangement.

You might can do better with golf cart batteries.

[quick search]  An 8D deep cycle battery would be a good choice, but it'll cost you over $500.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2011, 12:50:27 PM by zxcvbob »
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never_retreat

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Re: Battery capacity and amp hours
« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2011, 07:51:49 PM »
The list price is 390.00 at NAPA, They give me the shop rate usually so It would be less.
I can Also try the interstate distributor in town.
This may me excessive also I could scale back to a 4d also. They are only $262.
Either one is cheaper than a flooded basement. At least until I get a permanent gen installed with an ATS.

Part Number: BAT 8276
Battery Application : Marine
Battery BCI # : 8D
Battery CA @ 32 Degrees F : 1700
Battery CCA @ 0 Degrees F : 1400
Battery Height : 9 13/16"
Battery Length : 20 3/4"
Battery Load Test Amps : 700
Battery Posts Type : Top Mount
Battery Reserve Capacity : 430
Battery Weight : 130.0
Battery Width : 11 1/8"

Part Number: BAT 8274
Battery Application : Marine
Battery BCI # : 4DM
Battery CA @ 32 Degrees F : 1645
Battery CCA @ 0 Degrees F : 1314
Battery Height : 9 13/16"
Battery Length : 20 3/4"
Battery Load Test Amps : 657
Battery Posts Type : Top Mount
Battery Reserve Capacity : 390
Battery Weight : 116.8
Battery Width : 8 3/4"
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birdman

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Re: Battery capacity and amp hours
« Reply #5 on: September 04, 2011, 11:08:08 AM »
Reserve capacity is time in minutes under a 25 amp load.  So simply divide by 60, and multiply by 25 to get effective capacity in Ah.  For big loads, this is more useful than Ah, as those tests are typically done at lower loads.  As with all batteries, the greater the load, the lower the effective capacity (due to internal resistance and other effects).  For example, a car battery will likely last 11x as long at 2.5A than at 25A, even though the load is only 1/10 as big.  At 250A, it would likely last 1/15 or 1/20 as long than at 25A.

In general, to have good voltage margin, divide reserve capacity by 3 and you will have a reasonable (20-30%) margin on top of the resulting Ah rating.  As some devices are voltage sensitive, and voltage declines as the battery depletes, this will result in a more consistent power source.  Also, if you want to further reduce that by 20-25%, the life cycle of the battery will improve dramatically--typically, a 20-25% reduction in depth of discharge yields a 3-10x increase in cycle lifetime

never_retreat

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Re: Battery capacity and amp hours
« Reply #6 on: September 05, 2011, 04:25:31 PM »
So If I take a battery with a capacity of 430 divide by 60 and multiply by 25. That gives me 179ah.
Than If the pump draws 20 amps, I would divide the 179 ah by the 20 ams required to run the pump. That would be 8.96 hours of continuous run time.
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birdman

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Re: Battery capacity and amp hours
« Reply #7 on: September 05, 2011, 04:58:56 PM »
So If I take a battery with a capacity of 430 divide by 60 and multiply by 25. That gives me 179ah.
Than If the pump draws 20 amps, I would divide the 179 ah by the 20 ams required to run the pump. That would be 8.96 hours of continuous run time.
I'm I on the right track?


Yup.  Though I would apply some margin there.  The motor is listed as 1/2hp (approx 375W mechanical power), or about 395-400W electrical (most motors are about 95+% efficient), or a draw of about 33-34A at 12V.  As such, you would likely get approx 5hrs out of that battery at max motor load.

 What are you trying to pump?  At max power, that's a 3840gph pump...5 hours is 19200 gallons (almost 73 cubic meters of water).  That's a completely filled, 400sq ft, 6.5 ft deep basement...in five hours. 

If that is an insufficient amount of pumping, I would suggest that additional batteries at $400 each might be a poor economic choice compared to spending that money on water proofing, modified construction, or a small earthen dam :)

zxcvbob

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Re: Battery capacity and amp hours
« Reply #8 on: September 05, 2011, 05:24:15 PM »
For $300 you can get a gasoline-powered 3" trash pump from Harbor Freight.  It's rated > 200 GPM.
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birdman

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Re: Battery capacity and amp hours
« Reply #9 on: September 05, 2011, 05:30:36 PM »
For $300 you can get a gasoline-powered 3" trash pump from Harbor Freight.  It's rated > 200 GPM.

Right on.  For bulk water removal, go with gas...for periodic pumping, that sump would work,  so I would say, keep the battery you got and buy a backup gas pump if things get that bad.

never_retreat

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Re: Battery capacity and amp hours
« Reply #10 on: September 05, 2011, 08:11:12 PM »
For $300 you can get a gasoline-powered 3" trash pump from Harbor Freight.  It's rated > 200 GPM.
I have a 2" trash pump. That would only work good if the water was all there then it needed to be removed.
You would crank it over and the sump would be empty, that is after you prime the dam thing.
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