Author Topic: Not sure that there's a pit deep enough or fire hot enough for this one... (Read 1935 times)

brimic · « **on:** August 15, 2012, 11:15:20 PM »

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/14/hepatitis-c-david-kwiatkowski-_n_1776435.html

Quote

Also Tuesday, the University of Pittsburgh Medical Center said it sent letters to about 2,000 patients who may have been exposed to hepatitis C by the former medical worker.

Perd Hapley · « **Reply #1 on:** August 15, 2012, 11:19:41 PM »

Quote

Not sure that there's a pit deep enough or fire hot enough for this one...

Sometimes the doctrine of hell is not so off-putting.

Nick1911 · « **Reply #2 on:** August 16, 2012, 12:04:16 AM »

After reading the Hep C wikipdia page, that is outstandingly horrific.

Jim147 · « **Reply #3 on:** August 16, 2012, 12:24:11 AM »

Quote

Not sure that there's a pit deep enough or fire hot enough for this one...

Yeah, but I have a lot of try in me. Plenty of coal around from the old strip pits.

jim

MillCreek · « **Reply #4 on:** August 16, 2012, 12:35:30 AM »

As a healthcare risk manager, this is the sort of thing that keeps me awake at night. There have been similar cases in the past and the perpetrators have done long prison terms.

vaskidmark · « **Reply #5 on:** August 16, 2012, 01:21:53 AM »

It's amazing (cue sarcasm music) when the last facility in a long chain, who suddenly realizes the liability they face because some joker has such a lengthy string of issues", will sound the call the loudest for regulatory action to prevent finding itself hip-deep in doo-doo should there be another one coming down the pike.

And yet we can tell you the complete social and medical history of every dairy cow in the country, and could do so for the last umpteen years.

So who do you suggest gets thrown into the special place?

stay safe.

cassandra and sara's daddy · « **Reply #6 on:** August 16, 2012, 03:17:55 AM »

another rogue medical professional protected by the the white wall of silence?

seeker_two · « **Reply #7 on:** August 16, 2012, 07:32:17 AM »

And, due to the expense and future shortage of doctors & RN's, much of Obamacare will be dependant on med techs.....

MillCreek · « **Reply #8 on:** August 16, 2012, 11:21:06 AM »

In response to the AP story, Exeter Hospital on Tuesday called for mandatory disclosure by health care facilities about problem workers. The hospital said there should be a national registry system covering all workers providing patient care, and hospitals that share information should be protected from employment lawsuits.

Yes, we should be able to bad-mouth our former employees and breach their medical privacy with complete immunity.

brimic · « **Reply #9 on:** August 16, 2012, 11:27:32 AM »

Quote

Yes, we should be able to bad-mouth our former employees and breach their medical privacy with complete immunity.

There lies the problem- damned if you do, someone else could be damned if you don't....

The real responsibility needs to fall on the med tech who couldn't keep his diseased veins off the patients' medicine.

cassandra and sara's daddy · « **Reply #10 on:** August 16, 2012, 12:23:39 PM »

not isolated incident

http://www.denverpost.com/ci_13001520

The St. Anthony cases follow drug charges against former Rose Medical Center surgical technician Kristen Diane Parker, who is accused of injecting herself with the painkiller fentanyl, then returning the dirty syringes filled with saline.

Nineteen people, so far, have contracted hepatitis C as a result of surgery at Rose and Audubon Ambulatory Surgery Center in Colorado Springs, where Parker worked after she was fired from Rose in April, according to prosecutors.

"What this highlights is that this is unfortunately not a completely uncommon thing," Kimbrough said of drug thefts by hospital employees. "I think the Kristen Parker case and the incredible parts of that case shined a spotlight on this kind of behavior."

Read more: 2nd nurse faces drug charge at St. Anthony Central - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/ci_13001520#ixzz23j8OtSD8
Read The Denver Post's Terms of Use of its content: http://www.denverpost.com/termsofuse

MillCreek · « **Reply #11 on:** August 16, 2012, 12:33:06 PM »

Working in the field, I can tell you there a lot of similar incidents all across the country. For that matter, although it may depend on the case or statutory law or the regulations of a given state, there is generally no obligation for a healthcare provider to tell the employer or patients that they have an infectious disease, mental illness or the like. So your doctor could have HIV and you would likely never know about it unless he/she voluntarily told you. This is all confidential under medical privacy laws/ADA with some possible exceptions.

This is of course not limited to healthcare. It applies to Officer Joe, Firefighter Joan, Programmer Bill, Risk Manager Michael, Teacher Sam, Lawyer Janet, Secretary Fred or Plumber Ed. They don't have to tell their employer or customers, students, clients, co-workers or anybody about their medical condition, especially if they are not seeking any sort of accommodation for it.

cassandra and sara's daddy · « **Reply #12 on:** August 16, 2012, 12:49:56 PM »

i'm ok with that? substituting needle contaminated by you for the ones you steal from patients? not so much

MillCreek · « **Reply #13 on:** August 16, 2012, 01:06:22 PM »

Quote from: cassandra and sara's daddy on August 16, 2012, 12:49:56 PM

i'm ok with that? substituting needle contaminated by you for the ones you steal from patients? not so much

One of the guys I went to paramedic school with was convicted many years later of drug diversion. It turns out that he was injecting himself with the Demerol multi-dose vials on the medic one unit, and refilling them with sterile saline so the drug loss was not discovered. At least he had the common courtesy to use sterile technique on both the diversion and refilling, so there was no risk of any disease transmission. But still, the patients who needed pain control were not getting it because the vials were essentially full of water.

cassandra and sara's daddy · « **Reply #14 on:** August 16, 2012, 01:20:20 PM »

seen a number of nurses divert. and a lot of lesser med asst's and therapists. docs usually just self prescribe they don't steal. stealing pain meds from someone dying in pain?

Boomhauer · « **Reply #15 on:** August 16, 2012, 01:25:02 PM »

Quote from: MillCreek on August 16, 2012, 12:33:06 PM

Working in the field, I can tell you there a lot of similar incidents all across the country. For that matter, although it may depend on the case or statutory law or the regulations of a given state, there is generally no obligation for a healthcare provider to tell the employer or patients that they have an infectious disease, mental illness or the like. So your doctor could have HIV and you would likely never know about it unless he/she voluntarily told you. This is all confidential under medical privacy laws/ADA with some possible exceptions.

This is of course not limited to healthcare. It applies to Officer Joe, Firefighter Joan, Programmer Bill, Risk Manager Michael, Teacher Sam, Lawyer Janet, Secretary Fred or Plumber Ed. They don't have to tell their employer or customers, students, clients, co-workers or anybody about their medical condition, especially if they are not seeking any sort of accommodation for it.

And I love how if somebody has a disease and, say, spits blood in my face, without a court order they can't be made to reveal their illness or be tested to confirm it.

I'm fairly sure that my fellow firefighters would happily compel said person to voluntarily give up the info...

MillCreek · « **Reply #16 on:** August 16, 2012, 01:27:50 PM »

Quote from: cassandra and sara's daddy on August 16, 2012, 01:20:20 PM

seen a number of nurses divert. and a lot of lesser med asst's and therapists. docs usually just self prescribe they don't steal. stealing pain meds from someone dying in pain?

Except the anesthesiologists. They divert from the anesthesia med cart. Fentanyl is usually the drug of choice.

cassandra and sara's daddy · « **Reply #17 on:** August 16, 2012, 01:29:41 PM »

I'm fairly sure that my fellow firefighters would happily compel said person to voluntarily give up the info...

just take your own tissue sample

back in the day when i was fighting i was know for biting. i quit that when it started being more dangerous to me than them. shame its a real good way to end it

cassandra and sara's daddy · « **Reply #18 on:** August 16, 2012, 01:30:54 PM »

Fentanyl is usually the drug of choice.

i can see why if i ever decide to off myself thats my first choice about 5 patches under a heating pad

cassandra and sara's daddy · « **Reply #19 on:** August 16, 2012, 01:45:25 PM »

heres a sweet one

Newser) – Lawmakers in nine states want doctors to be able to say they're sorry. So-called "I'm-sorry" laws, already on the books in 27 states, allow doctors to apologize to patients when they make mistakes, or as expressions of sympathy, without fear of litigation.

The wave of laws, all passed within the last couple of years, is aimed at encouraging doctors to be more forthcoming with patients about errors, to improve care and defuse patient anger. Some laws offer a specific window for safe apologies after a procedure; others permit only oral apologies. But medical insurers are still warning their clients to avoid loaded words like "error," "mistake," "fault" or "negligence."

MillCreek · « **Reply #20 on:** August 16, 2012, 02:07:07 PM »

Quote from: cassandra and sara's daddy on August 16, 2012, 01:45:25 PM

heres a sweet one

Newser) – Lawmakers in nine states want doctors to be able to say they're sorry. So-called "I'm-sorry" laws, already on the books in 27 states, allow doctors to apologize to patients when they make mistakes, or as expressions of sympathy, without fear of litigation.

The wave of laws, all passed within the last couple of years, is aimed at encouraging doctors to be more forthcoming with patients about errors, to improve care and defuse patient anger. Some laws offer a specific window for safe apologies after a procedure; others permit only oral apologies. But medical insurers are still warning their clients to avoid loaded words like "error," "mistake," "fault" or "negligence."

This is what I do for a living, and I have been an advocate of apology long before there were any laws giving any sort of protection for it. These laws are essentially useless, in my opinion. And you do have to be careful with your words, since if you do admit liability, that will be used against you in court. If there is any admission of liability to be done, I am the one who does it, since I am the one writing the check.

brimic · « **Reply #21 on:** August 16, 2012, 02:18:28 PM »

Quote

This is what I do for a living, and I have been an advocate of apology long before there were any laws giving any sort of protection for it. These laws are essentially useless, in my opinion. And you do have to be careful with your words, since if you do admit liability, that will be used against you in court. If there is any admission of liability to be done, I am the one who does it, since I am the one writing the check.

Sounds a lot like 'good samaritan' laws where if someone renders aid, they are shielded from liability.
There is so much that is out of human hands and where blame doesn't help anyone except the ambulance chaser.

OTOH, I think there should be some sort of 'Airlock law' as practiced in Heinlein's TMIAHM where people benignly ignore 'unfortunate accidents' that happen to people who maliciously harm others.

MillCreek · « **Reply #22 on:** August 16, 2012, 02:32:50 PM »

Quote from: brimic on August 16, 2012, 02:18:28 PM

Sounds a lot like 'good samaritan' laws where if someone renders aid, they are shielded from liability.
There is so much that is out of human hands and where blame doesn't help anyone except the ambulance chaser.

And then again, there are cases in which the healthcare provider clearly screwed up and harmed someone. My philosophy on those cases is to try and recognize it early on, say that we screwed up, say that we are sorry and try to reach a fair settlement for both sides. It does no one any good to drag out the process. As brimic said, there are cases in which bad things happen to good people and that doesn't mean in and of itself that someone screwed up; and there are cases in which liability is not clear, and sometimes it takes a long time to figure this out, and you can get opinions on both sides in terms of negligence, and sometimes it is up to the 12 people in the jury box to figure out if someone did anything wrong and what is it worth.

I have always argued that we should have a simplified medical liability system in which liability is determined by an independent panel of medical and legal experts and injuries are paid off a schedule like workers' compensation. The sticky wicket on this is who will pay for such a system. These systems have been tried in other countries, and they tend to run out of money.

News:

Author Topic: Not sure that there's a pit deep enough or fire hot enough for this one... (Read 1935 times)