Aquaponics, home fisheries, koi ponds, et cetera

[AZRedhawk44]

Anyone here raising any fish at home?

I'd like to set up a little (and I mean little... six foot diameter at the most and three foot deep) pond, similar to a koi pond, but to raise something to eat every now and then.  Ideally I'd have some trout in there.  I hear a lot of people doing things like this with tilapia, but I've never had much love for that particular fish.

Trout are a fast water fish so I'd need to have a pump moving the water pretty good, and probably have a more rectangular pond with the pump input/output on far ends from each other to simulate some sort of current.  And they favor cooler climates, so the pond would need to be at least a foot or two recessed into the ground to dissipate the phoenix heat as much as possible.

The goal is a neat garden feature that adds a pleasant element to the backyard, that also happens to give me a few trout to eat every month or two... not a survivalist's abandoned swimming pool filled with hundreds of breeding tilapia.  It'd be neat to see if my dog is successful in protecting the fish from the neighborhood cats.  It'd certainly give him some increased purpose around the house... I worry he gets a bit bored from time to time.

Possible?

Or will I not be able to protect the trout from the PHX 110* temperatures?

My parents have an in-ground swimming pool that is only passively heated by the sun, and the water in it gets into the low 80's in the summer time.  But, it's 100% exposed to the sun with no shade.  I figure I can shade this if need be, to keep it a bit cooler and more evenly regulated.

[brimic]

Warm climate should be really good for growing catfish.

[Harold Tuttle]

There's a great backyard aquaponics thread on arfcom

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_10_19/656968_Official_Backyard_Aquaponics_Thread__Update_09_11__Fish_tank_pictures_and_minor_updates__Page_6.html

[grislyatoms]

In a smaller pond like that, watch out for crows, unless your koi/other fish are a decent size.

[brimic]

In a smaller pond like that, watch out for crows, unless your koi/other fish are a decent size.

...and herons.

[vaskidmark]

Visit one of the larger Chinese buffets in your AO - odds are they have a koi pond going.  I do not have any idea what koi tastes like, and also am not fond of Talapia ever since that NatGeo program on aquaculture.  Don't like catfish for the same reason, plus our local varieties carry kepone at lethal levels.

Ask the local Extension Service agent about big- and small-mouth bass.  Good food and fun to land, plus you can go to places like Bass Pro or Cabella's to practice.

stay safe.

[Ben]

I don't remember the name, but MrsSmith will if she reads this thread. Some fish that starts with a "T" I think. Fast growing, multiply like rabbits and supposed to be fair eating. One of the Doomsday Prepper episodes showed some guy in AZ who converted his swimming pool into a pond and had a ton of them in there. It was actually a really cool setup that if I remember right, integrated into his garden as well.

EDIT: Skid mentioned the fish - Talapia.

[Scout26]

I can send you a bunch of Asian Carp. 

[grislyatoms]

...and herons.

Not too many herons here in the NM desert   but yes, they would be a threat as well, in a coastal region.  

[charby]

There are a lot of university extention publications on these subjects, start checking the land grant schools for this information.

[Ben]

I can send you a bunch of Asian Carp. 

A taste for carp can be culturally related. It's a prime fish in some parts of Germany and Northern Italy. I got stuck eating it a couple of times while in Germany when my uncle ordered my food at a sportsman's restaurant and then also cooked it at home. My German DNA did not kick in on finding it in the least tasty.

Also certain American cultural groups like it. When I used to bait fish at a local lake, most people would cuss when they caught a carp and dump it in the trash. A particular minority that fished there would intercept the fish and take it for themselves before it went to the trash.

[MechAg94]

A taste for carp can be culturally related. It's a prime fish in some parts of Germany and Northern Italy. I got stuck eating it a couple of times while in Germany when my uncle ordered my food at a sportsman's restaurant and then also cooked it at home. My German DNA did not kick in on finding it in the least tasty.

Also certain American cultural groups like it. When I used to bait fish at a local lake, most people would cuss when they caught a carp and dump it in the trash. A particular minority that fished there would intercept the fish and take it for themselves before it went to the trash.

I was thinking some in Europe like it because there aren't a whole lot of other fish left in their rivers/lakes.  I could be wrong.

My brother does a lot of bowfishing.  Some people like Gar too, but he doesn't know any.  He normally dumps the gar and carp.  They sometimes have local authorities invite them to do bowfishing tournements at lakes to try to put a dent in the carp population.  Those carp can get pretty big. 

[grislyatoms]

Carp, tilapia, catfish, et. al. - 

The most excellent NA [small] freshwater fish would be:

1: Crappie (I know y'all will have a field day with that but they are fighters and damned tasty)
2: Bluegill (same comment as above, but not quite as tasty)

They're gamefish, though, so I don't know if keeping them is even legal.

[never_retreat]

Some good sources of data.
http://diyaquaponics.com/forum/portal.php
http://www.backyardaquaponics.com/forum/index.php
http://www.aquaponics.net.au/forum/index.php

I have been looking into it. Fish type is going to be really dependent on you climate. Unless it is warm year round tilapia are going to be out. Look into what is native to your area.
The sites listed are all about aquaponics which is fish and plants, not just fish.

[never_retreat]

I have several pdf books on the subject and a few full large videos about the subject.
If you have a spot where I can send you about 3 gigs your welcome to it.

[AZRedhawk44]

Some good sources of data.
http://diyaquaponics.com/forum/portal.php
http://www.backyardaquaponics.com/forum/index.php
http://www.aquaponics.net.au/forum/index.php

I have been looking into it. Fish type is going to be really dependent on you climate. Unless it is warm year round tilapia are going to be out. Look into what is native to your area.
The sites listed are all about aquaponics which is fish and plants, not just fish.

It's warm here year-round.  Swimming pools will reach 85 in the peak of the summer if exposed to sun.  Shady pools should stay in the 70's through the summer.

As far as I know, no fish are native to Phoenix.  There are fish up in the White Mountains, and I've even seen some fish in some of the tiny streams of the Superstition Mountains (I thought they were tadpoles at first and was amazed to find some fingerling fish called sticklebacks).  We have canals that go through the valley area and they have a pretty healthy selection, though:

http://www.azgfd.gov/artman/publish/printer_237.shtml

Catfish, bass, trout, and other sportfish are regularly taken out of the canals during the annual cleanup. They are then placed in one or more lakes in the Phoenix area.

Apache trout are native to AZ, so might make a better candidate than rainbow.  I'd need to see which do best in the warmest climates. 

Apaches are supposedly happy to 77* F water temps according to this:
http://www.fws.gov/southwest/es/arizona/Documents/SpeciesDocs/Apache_Trout/dRP_July07.pdf

While rainbows are happy to over 70* F water temps according to this:
http://www.missouriscenicrivers.com/Rainbow.html

Rainbows aren't considered engangered, while apaches are.  Though they're almost off the list.

[GigaBuist]

Tilapia are common fish for aquaponics because they're herbivores.  Same goes for Lake Perch which you probably can't do in your hot climate but you can pull off here in the Michigan area pretty easy.

Asian carp would also be a candidate.  They're different then common carp (which is exactly what Koi and Goldfish are -- they just have pretty colors -- you let pretty Koi breed for a generation or two and you'll start seeing ugly carp) because common carp is a bottom feeder.  Asian carp feeds of plankton.  That's why they suffocate every other species.  They starve everything else out.  And, I hear, they actually taste like a cross between crab and scallops.  Sounds yummy to me.

The trout you're thinking about.  Well, from Wikipedia:

Trout generally feed on other fish, and soft bodied aquatic invertebrates, such as flies, mayflies, caddisflies, stoneflies, mollusks and dragonflies.

You need an entire ecosystem to support them.  This is why fish like Tilapia are considered "sustainable" food but Trout and Salmon aren't.  They need to eat things that are edible to humans in order to survive.  It's more efficient just to eat the herbivores like Tilapia.  Easier to grow them on a farm, too, although that comes with a whole host of problems because pretty much every pesticide will f*ck up fish right quick.  Not that doing Trout or Salmon or any other omnivore is easier.  They're actually worse because now you need to keep 3-8 species living to support the final fish.

[vaskidmark]

About Talapia and that NatGeo special -  aquaculturists raise various & sundry species in a tank and harvest them.  Tank, as would be expected, is in dire need of cleaning if not sanitizing.  Talapia are dumped in and left alone for several weeks, then harvested.

Yeah, I know that whatever went in is broken down into molecular, if not atomic, components and reconstitued as fish.  Sure it's an emotional response.  Leaves that much more for you to buy, so quit trying to tell me it's irrantional (which I freely admit anyhow).

stay safe.

[AZRedhawk44]

Agreed, VA.  I don't care for Tilapia for that very reason.  They are septic fish, plain and simple.  Gross.

OK, so trout are a no-go unless I want to deliberately stock the water with trout food of some sort.  They won't survive on whatever bugs happen to try to swim or lay eggs in the water.

I don't like catfish or carp.

What other species could I consider?

[vaskidmark]

What other species could I consider?

Again - small- or large-mouth bass.  If you can keep them separated by size they do well aquafarmed.  The Virginia Cooperative Extension Service usually has a display at the State Fair of a corrugated steel tank about 12 feet across and 5 feet high with somewhere between 50 and 100 harvest-ready fish.  Either come out to the Fair later this month or call them up and ask about it.

stay safe.

[AZRedhawk44]

I have several pdf books on the subject and a few full large videos about the subject.
If you have a spot where I can send you about 3 gigs your welcome to it.

I'll set that up.  Gimme a few days.  Thank you!

[Harold Tuttle]

raise koi and sell them to the pond trade

once they reach 6 inches long, they get expensive very fast