Mars Rover

[280plus]

So if we were to develop some form of generator that would give Mars an artificial magnetic field it would start to collect an atmosphere?

[birdman]

So if we were to develop some form of generator that would give Mars an artificial magnetic field it would start to collect an atmosphere?

No, but if we melted the polar caps and darkened the surface a little, it means it would keep it longer.  By longer I mean millions to billions of years rather than hundreds of thousands to millions.

[kgbsquirrel]

No, but if we melted the polar caps and darkened the surface a little, it means it would keep it longer.  By longer I mean millions to billions of years rather than hundreds of thousands to millions.

Even if the solar wind wasn't whipping away the atmo, does Mars enough have enough gravity to create livable pressure conditions? (assuming pure-O2 mask for the user) If I'm remembering correctly, with pure oxygen minimum pressure is some 3-5 PSI.

[birdman]

Even if the solar wind wasn't whipping away the atmo, does Mars enough have enough gravity to create livable pressure conditions? (assuming pure-O2 mask for the user) If I'm remembering correctly, with pure oxygen minimum pressure is some 3-5 PSI.

Livable pressure, yes, easily 3-5psi is all that is needed.

[kgbsquirrel]

Livable pressure, yes, easily 3-5psi is all that is needed.

I hear on a scorching day the equator gets up to a toasty 70*F. Add a 3-5 PSI atmo, a pure O2 mask, and plenty of sunblock and you'd actually be able to take a stroll around the planet.

[DustinD]

Mars has 1.2 parts per million ozone vs 0.6 parts per million on Earth. It does have less than 1% of Earth's atmosphere though, and receives 43% as much sunlight as we do. This does not take into account how much reaches the surface vs gets reflected or absorbed on each planet. Hopefully the ozone levels will scale when we terraform Mars.

Increasing the atmosphere, especially the water vapor would increase the temperature. Plus we could add Statites to shine sunlight on the surface, among other methods. Producing a lot of CF4 and other super green house gasses would help too.

[birdman]

Easiest way to warm mars:

Charcoal.
Since the atmosphere doesn't have any O2, fine carbon particles don't burn.
1. Take carbonaceous asteroid approx. 1km diameter
2. Grind into powder about 20-30 microns in size
3. Wrap powder in alumnized pillow shaped plastic bags about 20-30cm diameter (billions of them)
4. Re-enter bags

About 10-20% of the dust should make it through to the surface, and cover about 10% of the surface, which would increase the absorption by nearly 10-20%, more than enough to initiate a greenhouse cycle (give the power caps a double or triple dose of black dust to help)

[kgbsquirrel]

I find it freaking awesome that we've progressed to the point that we can discuss means of terraforming another planet that are actually within our current technological grasp (if not necessarily financial). As another pointed out though, how do we go about generally a large enough magnetic field to prevent the newly liberated atmosphere (from the polar ice) from bleeding off into space?

Warm the place up - Check.
Increase atmospheric pressure - Check.
Keep the place from going tits up, again - ??

[birdman]

I find it freaking awesome that we've progressed to the point that we can discuss means of terraforming another planet that are actually within our current technological grasp (if not necessarily financial). As another pointed out though, how do we go about generally a large enough magnetic field to prevent the newly liberated atmosphere (from the polar ice) from bleeding off into space?

Warm the place up - Check.
Increase atmospheric pressure - Check.
Keep the place from going tits up, again - ??

Btw, the required materials already exist, but sorry, phobos and Deimos, one of you has to die.
It would take at a minimum hundreds of thousands of years to ablate the atmosphere with solar winds...dropping a comet or two in (using an atmospheric perigee, but extremely elliptical orbit to ensure minimal chance of surface impact, in a argument of perigee stable orbit (to ensure eventual impact is polar) should suffice.

The biggest issue with no magnetosphere is lack of shielding, so it's underground living, sorry.

Artificially creating a magnetosphere is hard.  You could do it by stringing a superconducting cable all the way around the planet (in orbit) and charging it up, but it would take cubic kilometers of materials to make.  It would be a near permanent solution though, not to mention a good platform for a low altitude synchronous platform by using it as a dynamic compression member.

[kgbsquirrel]

Btw, the required materials already exist, but sorry, phobos and Deimos, one of you has to die.
It would take at a minimum hundreds of thousands of years to ablate the atmosphere with solar winds...dropping a comet or two in (using an atmospheric perigee, but extremely elliptical orbit to ensure minimal chance of surface impact, in a argument of perigee stable orbit (to ensure eventual impact is polar) should suffice.

The biggest issue with no magnetosphere is lack of shielding, so it's underground living, sorry.

Artificially creating a magnetosphere is hard.  You could do it by stringing a superconducting cable all the way around the planet (in orbit) and charging it up, but it would take cubic kilometers of materials to make.  It would be a near permanent solution though, not to mention a good platform for a low altitude synchronous platform by using it as a dynamic compression member.

So, a Dyson Ring for Mars. Got any primarily metal asteroids near by? Seems like step 1 for this project is establishing a good space mining ability.

[birdman]

So, a Dyson Ring for Mars. Got any primarily metal asteroids near by? Seems like step 1 for this project is establishing a good space mining ability.

Lots.  It -is- next to the asteroid belt :)

[kgbsquirrel]

So, I'm thinking...

1: Lunar fueling jump off point for intra-stellar travel (because it's easier to haul the majority of the ox/hy out of the lunar gravity well and use that to top off the fuel tanks of any craft.)
2: Self-sustaining Mars orbital station for staging construction work and mining.
3: A string of autonomous (or not? Again self sustaining) asteroid mining stations so the Mars orbital station can keep picking up the raw materials as Mars proceeds through it's orbit.
4: Construction of a Dyson Ring around mars for the generation of an artificial magnetic field. (Hey, I wonder how much energy we could use from that solar wind we're trying to deflect?)
5: Carbon blacking the surface of Mars to increase absorbed solar radiation and raise temperature.
6: Sublimate the polar caps if 5 isn't getting it done.
7: Colonize Mars.
8: ?
9: Total Recall!!


ETA: You know, we could actually do this. Now. If only humanity could get it's collective head out of it's ass for a concentrated collective move to pushing the envelope of human achievement.

[Tallpine]

You know, we could actually do this. Now. If only humanity could get it's collective head out of it's ass for a concentrated collective move to pushing the envelope of human achievement.

The asteroid mining space stations will need to be handicap accessible 

[kgbsquirrel]

The asteroid mining space stations will need to be handicap accessible 

Zero gravity. Done. 

[birdman]

So, I'm thinking...

1: Lunar fueling jump off point for intra-stellar travel (because it's easier to haul the majority of the ox/hy out of the lunar gravity well and use that to top off the fuel tanks of any craft.)
2: Self-sustaining Mars orbital station for staging construction work and mining.
3: A string of autonomous (or not? Again self sustaining) asteroid mining stations so the Mars orbital station can keep picking up the raw materials as Mars proceeds through it's orbit.
4: Construction of a Dyson Ring around mars for the generation of an artificial magnetic field. (Hey, I wonder how much energy we could use from that solar wind we're trying to deflect?)
5: Carbon blacking the surface of Mars to increase absorbed solar radiation and raise temperature.
6: Sublimate the polar caps if 5 isn't getting it done.
7: Colonize Mars.
8: ?
9: Total Recall!!


ETA: You know, we could actually do this. Now. If only humanity could get it's collective head out of it's ass for a concentrated collective move to pushing the envelope of human achievement.

The Dustin ring is a long term thing...it's beyond our current capability, and the local field would be highly damaging to just about anything.

As for 5/6, 5 will sublimate the caps more than anything...which is then a self-accelerating process due to atmospheric trapping of IR by the additional co2

[kgbsquirrel]

The Dustin ring is a long term thing...it's beyond our current capability, and the local field would be highly damaging to just about anything.

As for 5/6, 5 will sublimate the caps more than anything...which is then a self-accelerating process due to atmospheric trapping of IR by the additional co2

Hell, the core as cooled down and is more or less solid right? If we're doing long term projects, mine down to the center and install the universe's largest electro-magnet. 

I'm looking at this in the long-term multi-millenia scale and I don't like the idea of just ignoring the solar wind/atmosphere issue because "it will take a hundred thousand years."

[birdman]

Hell, the core as cooled down and is more or less solid right? If we're doing long term projects, mine down to the center and install the universe's largest electro-magnet. 

I'm looking at this in the long-term multi-millenia scale and I don't like the idea of just ignoring the solar wind/atmosphere issue because "it will take a hundred thousand years."

At that point, easier to just roof the whole planet.

Though, there are enough comets to keep the atmosphere intact for far longer than that.

Besides, in 100k years, if we aren't expanding to other stars, we will have serious elbow room problems.

Want to ready something really cool?  Look up supramundane planet :)

[280plus]

Ok, enough conjecture, get your ahsss to Mahs!

[seeker_two]

So, I'm thinking...

1: Lunar fueling jump off point for intra-stellar travel (because it's easier to haul the majority of the ox/hy out of the lunar gravity well and use that to top off the fuel tanks of any craft.)
2: Self-sustaining Mars orbital station for staging construction work and mining.
3: A string of autonomous (or not? Again self sustaining) asteroid mining stations so the Mars orbital station can keep picking up the raw materials as Mars proceeds through it's orbit.
4: Construction of a Dyson Ring around mars for the generation of an artificial magnetic field. (Hey, I wonder how much energy we could use from that solar wind we're trying to deflect?)
5: Carbon blacking the surface of Mars to increase absorbed solar radiation and raise temperature.
6: Sublimate the polar caps if 5 isn't getting it done.
7: Colonize Mars.
8: ?
9: Total Recall!!


ETA: You know, we could actually do this. Now. If only humanity could get it's collective head out of it's ass for a concentrated collective move to pushing the envelope of human achievement.

In which step do we get the girl with three breasts?...

[AZRedhawk44]

  Look up supramundane planet :)

Done.  Like.

You may start building now. 

[kgbsquirrel]

In which step do we get the girl with three breasts?...

It's probably lurking somewhere in number 8.... just be sure to stay out of the long grass. 

[RoadKingLarry]

Well, we can pretty well forget colonizing Mars. The enviro-nazis will never allow it.

http://www.foxnews.com/science/2012/10/25/manned-mars-missions-could-threaten-red-planet-life-2094749311/

[birdman]

Well, we can pretty well forget colonizing Mars. The enviro-nazis will never allow it.

http://www.foxnews.com/science/2012/10/25/manned-mars-missions-could-threaten-red-planet-life-2094749311/

F mars life.  I'm not getting stuck on this planet because some bacteria was found on another.  It's bad enough some stupid lizard or bug prevents economic development or wilderness recreation here, we have to let some microscopic spotted owl stop us from colonizing other planets?

What's next "you can't cool down Venus because it's global warming is -natural-", "you can't grind up Deimos because that's destroying a moon!", "you can't wipe out France with an asteroid because they are smelly surrender monkeys"...okay, maybe the last one.

But interesting point...the ability to terraform, especially the ability to move/use asteroids is the ultimate high ground.

So what are the wackos gonna do...if you want to terraform mars by moving asteroids, grinding them up, and precision re-entering the chunks...why not accidentally hit Berkeley as well?

[Marnoot]

Aw, Larry beat me to it. The environazis will never be OK with us doing anything to another planet/moon. Everything must stay in the state it is everywhere always, don't you know. The question will be whether the more sane will be able to convince the deciders that the xenoenvironmentalists are  nuts.

[Tallpine]

Aw, Larry beat me to it. The environazis will never be OK with us doing anything to another planet/moon. Everything must stay in the state it is everywhere always, don't you know. The question will be whether the more sane will be able to convince the deciders that the xenoenvironmentalists are  nuts.

Yes, because some benevolent supreme being created it all just this way - no, wait ... that's not what they believe 

If humans destroy other species, isn't that just part of the evolutionary process