Trying to ID an oddball piece of brass

[Cliffh]

While at the range renewing my CHL today, I picked up a couple hands full of brass off the deck.  Tried to get just mine, but ended up with a few other calibers mixed in.

One of them is an oddball.  It's marked WWC 12 and has small a circle (about the size of one of the letters) with 4 dots inside.  Without mic'ing it, it's right at the same size as a couple 9mm Luger cases that were in the mix.  Got any thoughts on what caliber this one might be?

[Regolith]

Quick Google search shows it stands for Winchester Cartridge Corporation, with the 12 meaning 2012, or the manufacture year. It's supposed to be produced for the military, so I'm guessing it'd be standard 9mm.

http://ingunowners.com/forums/ammunition_and_reloading/208923-wcc_12_a.html

Edit: The circle is the NATO cross:

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=486935

[K Frame]

"Winchester Cartridge Corporation"

No, not quite.

It actually stands for Western Cartridge Company and which loads much of the brass produced for US contract.

If it's produced by Winchester, it will generally have a WRA headstamp.

And, per that thread, Winchester did not purchase Western. Western purchased Winchester when Winchester went into receivership in 1931. Later they were all formed into the Olin corporation.

[RoadKingLarry]

Yeah, you probably weren't suposed to find that. Sounds like one of DHS's superdooper patriot killer bullet rounds. Especially made to shoot through civilian patriotic insurgents and their whole brain washed cult like contitution worshipping families all at the same time. And the dog too.
Nice knowing you.
 

[dogmush]

Speaking of....

I busted in to my hoard of components this morning and was loading some .45 so SWMBO can go shooting, when I stumbled across this sucker:



.45 ACP brass with a small primer hole. What's up with that?

[41magsnub]

That has become reasonably common in the last year or so, especially in WWB.

[AmbulanceDriver]

Usually "clean fire" ammo in .45 ACP is loaded in brass with a small pistol primer hole....  At least that's been my understanding so far... 

[lee n. field]

Speaking of....

I busted in to my hoard of components this morning and was loading some .45 so SWMBO can go shooting, when I stumbled across this sucker:



.45 ACP brass with a small primer hole. What's up with that?

Yeah, some makers use small pistol primers.  Have for years.  Not a big deal except for handloaders.

[RoadKingLarry]

Win NT. I think the NT is supposed to be for Non Toxic It is the bain of progressive press operation. You just can't get a large pistol primer in that hole.

[220_SWIFT]

Win NT. I think the NT is supposed to be for Non Toxic It is the bain of progressive press operation. You just can't get a large pistol primer in that hole.

Bah, you just have to pull the handle REALLY hard!!! lol

[Gewehr98]

Yeah, I've bumped into that with my big Dillon press once or twice.

The suck part is that even with a given batch of brand-sorted brass, you're not safe.   

[kgbsquirrel]

What I really don't get is why shotshells need their own odd-ball primer sizes anymore. You have umpteen thousand different cartridges in the world, and they all take either small or large primers... and then you have shotshells. Freaking red-headed stepchild of the handloading world.

[K Frame]

Because modern shotshells use a base-wad construction, either paper or plastic, that can significantly interfere with a standard primer's ability to set off the powder charge. The 209-style primer, with its elongated tube, funnels the primer blast past the basewad and into the powder charge.

Back when shotshells were all metal, there were no basewads, and standard primers could be, and were, used.

[Cliffh]

Yeah, you probably weren't suposed to find that. Sounds like one of DHS's superdooper patriot killer bullet rounds. Especially made to shoot through civilian patriotic insurgents and their whole brain washed cult like contitution worshipping families all at the same time. And the dog too.
Nice knowing you.
 

Aw Crap!  Been nice knowin' y'all :(

[kgbsquirrel]

Because modern shotshells use a base-wad construction, either paper or plastic, that can significantly interfere with a standard primer's ability to set off the powder charge. The 209-style primer, with its elongated tube, funnels the primer blast past the basewad and into the powder charge.

Back when shotshells were all metal, there were no basewads, and standard primers could be, and were, used.

Can't that stem be integrated into the metal hull section of the shotshell? (I don't reload shotshells yet, only pistol/rifle) They do it with 40mm brass for the high/low pressure chambers. Just seems like it would greatly simplify the logistical chain if it could get rid of special shotshell and berdan primers and reduce it to just nine different primers.

Small/Large, Standard/Magnum, Rifle/Pistol

And then the big CCI No.35's for .50BMG/14.5mm/20mm and the like.

[K Frame]

"Can't that stem be integrated into the metal hull section of the shotshell?"

Probably.

But it's just as easy, if not easier, to integrate it into the primer assembly, apparently.

And at this point, why fix what isn't broken.