Ignore the pain of the grieving [De Selby, to the white courtesy phone?]

[MicroBalrog]

http://www.smh.com.au/comment/easing-gun-rules-ignores-the-pain-of-those-grieving-20130425-2ih5w.html

Easing Gun Rules ignores the pain of those grieving, says Samantha Lee of Gun Control Australia [yes, srsly], as she whines about gun laws there being vastly improved.

As for me, we should ignore the pain of the grieving as much as possible in these things.

Even if the grieving had spawned genetically from the horrific piles of children's shoes at Treblinka, it grants them not a single shred of grounds to order anyone around.

Now, I know we have at least one Australia-based attorney on this forum.

So I ask: Are the changes she's whingeing about meaningful? I somehow doubt it.

[De Selby]

Certainly the opening of public hunting grounds is meaningful - it makes a firearm sport available to a larger number of people.  This means more licenses issued for hunting firearms, and more exposure to hunting by the general public.   It is a direct consequence of the success of the Shooter's party in NSW.

The consultative committee at least get direct access to decision makers, but they're hardly dismantling the regulations.  No real changes in the system of registration are afoot, but gun ownership is at record highs.

[MicroBalrog]

So this is all for 'hunters and shooters'?

[Chuck Dye]

Democracy is rule by the people, kakistocracy rule by the worst, kleptocracy rule by thieves, etc.  What do we call rule by the victims?  By the breast beaters, wailers, and gnashers of teeth?  By those hypocrites who merely wield phony concern for victims as a demagogic bludgeon for more cynical ends?  More importantly, how do we keep them at bay?

[De Selby]

So this is all for 'hunters and shooters'?

No, not in the sense that you mean - hunters are gaining ground as compared to before, this exposing the sport to more people. 

[French G.]

Democracy is rule by the people, kakistocracy rule by the worst, kleptocracy rule by thieves, etc.  What do we call rule by the victims?  By the breast beaters, wailers, and gnashers of teeth?  By those hypocrites who merely wield phony concern for victims as a demagogic bludgeon for more cynical ends?  More importantly, how do we keep them at bay?

A nation of pussies?

[De Selby]

A nation of pussies?

More like a nation of priorities - better holidays, significantly higher pay, and much more security at work.    Not too sure they have the lame end of the economic stick here.

[MicroBalrog]

No, not in the sense that you mean - hunters are gaining ground as compared to before, this exposing the sport to more people. 

So, absolutely in the sense that I mean.

[MicroBalrog]

More like a nation of priorities - better holidays, significantly higher pay, and much more security at work.    Not too sure they have the lame end of the economic stick here.

I'm not sure if I'd trade Australia's economic freedom for its censorship and gun bans.

(Australia is 3rd on the Heritage economic freedom index, the United States is 10th.)

[dogmush]

More like a nation of priorities - better holidays, significantly higher pay, and much more security at work.    Not too sure they have the lame end of the economic stick here.

Economics ain't everything.

[Tallpine]

I hear that Australian border security is better than the US 

[dogmush]

We could stock the Rio Grande with Great White sharks to see if that helps.

[erictank]

We could stock the Rio Grande with Great White sharks to see if that helps.

Bull sharks. More aggressive, and able to tolerate fresh water, both IIRC.

[Sergeant Bob]

Democracy is rule by the people, kakistocracy rule by the worst, kleptocracy rule by thieves, etc.  What do we call rule by the victims?  By the breast beaters, wailers, and gnashers of teeth?  By those hypocrites who merely wield phony concern for victims as a demagogic bludgeon for more cynical ends?  More importantly, how do we keep them at bay?

There's a whole lotta big words there for a truck driver!

[Matthew Carberry]

There is a trend (per the hipster press anyway) here in the US of hipsters and locavores and back to nature lefty types, even in urban areas, learning to hunt under the "moral need to participate in a death from which you benefit" and such.

Which is a good thing here or in the Antipodes.  More people seeing peaceable and responsible uses for firearms move the bar against those who would eliminate them.  Their "reasonable" restrictions have to approach closer to what we on the gun rights side could swallow as reasonable, and gives a more forward position to start the counter-attack on restrictions from.

[ArfinGreebly]

Google "polypragmonocracy" (and add "Jeff Cooper" if you wish) for "government by busybodies."

[mtnbkr]

There is a trend (per the hipster press anyway) here in the US of hipsters and locavores and back to nature lefty types, even in urban areas, learning to hunt under the "moral need to participate in a death from which you benefit" and such.

Which is a good thing here or in the Antipodes.  More people seeing peaceable and responsible uses for firearms move the bar against those who would eliminate them.  Their "reasonable" restrictions have to approach closer to what we on the gun rights side could swallow as reasonable, and gives a more forward position to start the counter-attack on restrictions from.

Yup.  If you've ever watched any of the "Bizarre Foods with Andrew Zimmern" shows, he frequently portrays hunting as both "normal" and healthy, as well as a way to procure food that isn't pumped full of chemicals (except for lead).  Some of the folks portrayed in those segments are recent converts to hunting who you otherwise wouldn't expect to see in the field.

I've also read a few articles in the mainstream press about chefs and hipster locavore types getting into hunting to have more control over their food sources.

More people hunting and using guns seems like a good thing to me.

Chris

[MicroBalrog]

The fact is, gun reforms based on the needs of 'hunters' have nothing to do with gun rights as we understand them.

Any gun rights movement afraid to assert the fact that guns are weapons and tools of self-defense is useless and will in the long-term go nowhere.

[mtnbkr]

Any gun rights movement afraid to assert the fact that guns are weapons and tools of self-defense is useless and will in the long-term go nowhere.

Getting people comfortable with guns as tools for hunting is a useful first step towards having those same people become accustomed to the idea of guns as tools for self-defense.  Many of the folks Matt and I referenced above are not likely to make the leap from anti to pro self-defense-with-guns without that intermediate step of using guns for hunting.  They may never make that final leap, but because they now see guns as useful tools, they're less likely to support bans or restrictions.  I've seen that progression many times over, more than someone jumping from anti directly to armed self-defense.

To tie this back into recent events, the locavore who uses a muzzleloader to harvest deer or elk will not be as likely to call for or support restrictions on black powder and substitutes.

Chris

[MicroBalrog]

This may - may - be true in America, but in America this is only true because a self-defense-oriented gun rights movement exists there to lead the fight.

In Europe or Australia? Hah. There are incidents where hunters' groups lead calls on bans.