Author Topic: Flagger  (Read 3268 times)

AZRedhawk44

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Flagger
« on: September 20, 2013, 10:45:38 PM »
http://flagger.io/

Make NSA surveillance less effective by saturating all traffic with "naughty" words.

"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist."
--Lysander Spooner

I reject your authoritah!

tokugawa

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Re: Flagger
« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2013, 12:20:45 AM »
The entire premise the the NSA is filtering E-traffic to put 2 and 2 together to find bad guys is, IMO, completely inverted.  Yet it remains the focus of discussion.

 IMO, the REAL purpose of data collection is to use when John Smith becomes a serious political threat to the system, at which point every aspect of John Smiths life is able to be looked at and selected info made available for blackmail.

 They are not using data to find targets to destroy --they are ID'ing  the targets and using the data to destroy them.

 
 

Perd Hapley

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Re: Flagger
« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2013, 07:30:13 AM »
The entire premise the the NSA is filtering E-traffic to put 2 and 2 together to find bad guys is, IMO, completely inverted.  Yet it remains the focus of discussion.

 IMO, the REAL purpose of data collection is to use when John Smith becomes a serious political threat to the system, at which point every aspect of John Smiths life is able to be looked at and selected info made available for blackmail.

 They are not using data to find targets to destroy --they are ID'ing  the targets and using the data to destroy them.


This. Wonder what they had on John Roberts.
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brimic

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Re: Flagger
« Reply #3 on: September 21, 2013, 08:03:29 AM »
The entire premise the the NSA is filtering E-traffic to put 2 and 2 together to find bad guys is, IMO, completely inverted.  Yet it remains the focus of discussion.

 IMO, the REAL purpose of data collection is to use when John Smith becomes a serious political threat to the system, at which point every aspect of John Smiths life is able to be looked at and selected info made available for blackmail.

 They are not using data to find targets to destroy --they are ID'ing  the targets and using the data to destroy them.

 
 

Spot on.
If the NSA were looking for terrorists, mass shooters,bombers, etc, they would have found them before plots were carried out. In every case, such events were stopped by civilians/civilian police forces. I fully expect that sometime in the future, people's voting patterns will be influenced be influenced by the threat of their internet habits being exposed.
"now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb" -Dark Helmet

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Barack Obama

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Re: Re: Flagger
« Reply #4 on: September 21, 2013, 09:00:26 AM »
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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Azrael256

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Re: Re: Re: Flagger
« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2013, 09:10:28 AM »
No

That's not argument, it's just contradiction.  This is the NSA's armed action wing doing this?

Let's see an FBI file.

Jamisjockey

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Re: Re: Re: Flagger
« Reply #6 on: September 21, 2013, 09:33:50 AM »

No

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/06/27/19175466-nsa-chief-says-surveillance-programs-helped-foil-54-plots?lite



damn phone

I stopped a bank robbery every month for the last year.  Refute that.  But I wont' show you any proof. Take my word for it.  I'm from the government, afterall.
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Re: Re: Flagger
« Reply #7 on: September 21, 2013, 09:48:06 AM »
That's not argument, it's just contradiction.  This is the NSA's armed action wing doing this?

Let's see an FBI file.

 Najibullah Zazi, in 2009.
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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Azrael256

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Re: Re: Re: Flagger
« Reply #8 on: September 21, 2013, 10:27:35 AM »
Najibullah Zazi, in 2009.

I find ample notes about an FBI wiretap.  Where is it indicated that the NSA's domestic surveillance caught him?

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Flagger
« Reply #9 on: September 21, 2013, 11:24:12 AM »
i didn't find reference to the initial taps being fbi
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/feds-caught-najibullah-zazi-pieced-9-11-terror-plot-article-1.380680

http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2009-10-06/news/36924697_1_najibullah-zazi-obama-administration-obama-aides
At the same time, the Obama administration is pressing Congress to move swiftly to reauthorize three provisions of the USA Patriot Act set to expire in late December. They include the use of "roving wiretaps" to track movement, e-mail and phone communications, a tool that federal officials used in the weeks leading up to Zazi's arrest.

http://www.ibtimes.com/did-prism-actually-help-catch-would-be-nyc-subway-bomber-najbullah-zazi-1297431


last  we hear from the fbi itself
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1306/18/cnr.05.html
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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tokugawa

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Re: Flagger
« Reply #10 on: September 21, 2013, 05:21:41 PM »
CASD-  I honestly hope you never have the State, which you seem to unequivocally support, turn on you. The cognitive shock may well cause a heart failure. 

" Government is a dangerous servant, and a fearful master." 
 

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Flagger
« Reply #11 on: September 21, 2013, 07:08:59 PM »
CASD-  I honestly hope you never have the State, which you seem to unequivocally support, turn on you. The cognitive shock may well cause a heart failure. 

" Government is a dangerous servant, and a fearful master."

That's interesting. I have indeed experienced some interaction with the state. In real life not on you tube or other site. I find the gov to be most dangerous in being inept as opposed to malicious.





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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

tokugawa

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Re: Flagger
« Reply #12 on: September 21, 2013, 09:37:54 PM »
That's interesting. I have indeed experienced some interaction with the state. In real life not on you tube or other site. I find the gov to be most dangerous in being inept as opposed to malicious.

 It is not necessarily malice , although there have indeed been many cases of that also.  The simple refusal to admit mistake, accompanied by virtually unlimited funds, can ruin lives.  Richard Jewel comes to mind. Bear in mind the results of being run over by a bulldozer are the same whether it is accidental or deliberate.

 The governments main objective is not to protect or serve  the public, it is to protect themselves and further their power. All else is incidental.   Jerry Pournelles Iron Rule of Bureaucracy describes it well- 

 "Pournelle's Iron Law of Bureaucracy states that in any bureaucratic organization there will be two kinds of people":

     First, there will be those who are devoted to the goals of the organization. Examples are dedicated classroom teachers in an educational bureaucracy, many of the engineers and launch technicians and scientists at NASA, even some agricultural scientists and advisors in the former Soviet Union collective farming administration.

    Secondly, there will be those dedicated to the organization itself. Examples are many of the administrators in the education system, many professors of education, many teachers union officials, much of the NASA headquarters staff, etc.

The Iron Law states that in every case the second group will gain and keep control of the organization. It will write the rules, and control promotions within the organization."
 
 

 Many extremely pro government people have found to their chagrin that trying to change a corrupt or illegal situation in the "system", using approved channels,  has very unpleasant consequences.

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Re: Flagger
« Reply #13 on: September 21, 2013, 10:02:36 PM »
Excellent points. In particular the one about approved systems. I have never felt constrained to approved systems

damn phone
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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Levant

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Re: Flagger
« Reply #14 on: September 24, 2013, 08:34:51 PM »
I stopped a bank robbery every month for the last year.  Refute that.  But I wont' show you any proof. Take my word for it.  I'm from the government, afterall.

Don't you know?  If the government said it then it's true - including that you're guilty, of whatever -edit: unless you're a cop, in which case your governmentness in claiming you're innocent overrules the actual government's claim that you are not - end edit.  On the other hand, if you say the sky is blue then it is not, unless you can provide a statement from the government to back you up.
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Republicans: The other Democratic Party

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Flagger
« Reply #15 on: September 24, 2013, 08:37:46 PM »
Don't you know?  If the government said it then it's true - including that you're guilty, of whatever -edit: unless you're a cop, in which case your governmentness in claiming you're innocent overrules the actual government's claim that you are not - end edit.  On the other hand, if you say the sky is blue then it is not, unless you can provide a statement from the government to back you up.

you missed the part where the fbi guy acknowledged it was nsa taps?
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I